Wow Gaulic Warbands are tough!!

[unseen11]

I always used to think warbands weren't worth ****, since i was always playing as Julii and routing warband after warband all the time. But since i've started up a gaulic campaign i've practically kicked the ass of anyone who has opposed me with warbands (of course with some help from skirmishers and barbarian calvary )

Recently when i was attacked by a pretty big stack of Julii (alot of hastai, some town watch and 3 roman generals) i fought them in a forest and i decided to go right at the romans and charge at them with warcry on, and i absolutely decimated them. Not one infantryman made it off the field alive

My general strategy is to have my skirmisher warbands attack the enemy lines while my warband gets close enough to do a warcry and charge with the warcry effect lasting as long as possible, this usually causes the enemy to rout

im also looking into trying to use Naked fanatics on my flanks but in my tests, a warcry effected fanatic cant take down a british warband

Anyone else care to share with me their Gaulic/British battle strategies? (note: germanic strats as well i guess, though they don't really interest me for some reason)

[Kekvit Irae]

Just wait until you get the ability to train three bronze cheveron Forester Warbands and upgrade their weaponry to gold.

[The Stranger]

i once fought 4 foresters to 3 gold chevron in 50 years, they were good for about 15000 roman casualties

[Siris]

I've never fought as any Barbarrian faction, somehow it just doesant seem that interesting to me... I prefer soliders clad in shining armor, & definate notice of my countries power, not some guys running around in loin cloths!

Any incite as to why their fun to play as?

I also hate not having strong city defenses, like Large Stone Walls (I dont do Epics, too big).

[unseen11]

well things right now are going so well that i may consider not bothering with swordsmen untill much later.

i've already beaten Spain down to their last city, can you beleive they offered me trade rights one second and then the spanish captain behind him attacked me right then?, well i'v extracted revenge by exterminating all their cities.

And i've also managed to take a foothold in Londinium but my faction leader is incharge of the group and is 60 and i have a alliance with germania and i haven't noticed any mass of German troops on my borders.

Maybe i should also note i'm playing on m/m, no bull**** handicap on moral for the A.I

[professorspatula]

Warbands are ok at the beginning, but the later legionaries (and any decent troops) will chew right through them. Although skirmishers and a well timed warcry charge is still effective. Fighting in the forests is the right idea too, those barbarians get a bonus there. Cavalry suffers badly though. At the end of the day they're really only fodder/screening troops for your cavalry and elite troops.

I think Warbands should get a bonus against mounted troops though. They have spears, and the description for the similar mercenary warband unit suggests they should be effective against cavalry, but they receive no bonus. So I gave them a +2 bonus anyway. Not a lot, but better than nothing.

[Kekvit Irae]

Any incite as to why their fun to play as?

Tactics. The more sophisticated factions have units can will chew through your warbands like Kirsty Alley at a buffet, and the only advantage you have (until you get your elites) is numbers. Playing a barbarian faction will teach you a lot about preserving your troops and careful battlefield manuavering if you wish to win again Roman legions.

[Fisherking]

I have only played with the Germans but have fought the nasty little bugger enough & yes they are good.

I would guess that druids work like the German Schreeching Women too...
If so they should be great. The Germans are spearmen that form phalanxs so I know they are different but they are a little tougher than the Gauls in a fight I think. Also the schreeching women do wonders from behind the lines & pack enough punch to finish off a tough foe. I had no military trouble beating the Romans with them....but money is a whole other issue. I will have to try the Gauls & Brits soon. I have just had such a blast using all of the strong cavalry in the east so far.

[The Stranger]

the thing with barbarian factions are tacticts and careful choise ground. set up choke points and stop the enemy there, let them attack several times and they run out of money and armies

[Marcus Maxentius]

The key with barbarians is constant movement of your units. You can't rely on highly equipped, highly trained units like the civilized nations so tactics is everything. Most of the time you can take a line of elites and bum rush the front line in submission. Your infantry is essentially like cavalry, after the initial charge they don't last long in prolonged melee. This is a bit different in forest combat where you have the advantage. But anyways, attack em masse from all angles.

Play dirty. Double team enemy units. Lead away units and attack them from behind. Hold both flanks and pin the center in a chokepoint of their own doing with missles and dogs.
Use fear. I've had victories where the army turned their backs and fled only to be slaughtered to the last man. You gotta make those Romans shake before you can kill them. Otherwise there's not much a shield and a pair of pants are going to do to protect you.

I think they should be tougher since they were supposed to be superb individual fighters. Rome seems to force them to fight as a unit when that's their weakness.

[Marcus Maxentius]

Forests are awesome for barbs like the germans. Cav become mincemeat due to their -6 penalty. It seems like roman units can't move as fast and their morale seems to drop. What I found is cool is a small line of axemen with screeching women and off to the side ready to flank is a mass of night raiders, chosen axemen, and skirmishers.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I just started a new Julii campaign and due to my new hardware put the settings to huge units, this makes a huge difference. Warbands used to be pushovers, but now they are tough against my cavalry even if I charge the rear. Much more fun.

[mxlm]

I think they should be tougher since they were supposed to be superb individual fighters. Rome seems to force them to fight as a unit when that's their weakness.

Admittedly, my knowledge of Roman history is, ah, limited, but doesn't that seem accurate to you? Being a superb individual fighter doesn't matter nearly so much when your opponent has support to both sides of himself, and is working in concert with them.

Wasn't the Roman advantage against the barbarians (aside from armor, I presume) discipline and mutual support?

I also seem to recall reading somewhere that the larger weapons the barbs used made it difficult for them to support each other--if they got close to each other, they'd get in each other's way. Not so the Romans with their short swords.

[pezhetairoi]

I hardly think the Gauls were superb individual fighters; I remember reading somewhere (Polybius/Tacitus/Vegetius) that they had completely no fighting skills at all, and would just swing their spathas in such a way that the Romans could just duck under their arm and deliver a gladius in the guts. Not only that, they have been recorded as swinging their swords so mediocrely that sometimes lethal swings are non-lethal because they end up whacking the legionnaire with the flat of the blade. How's that for good individual fighting.

Hmm, a thought. How accurate are Gaulish warbands historically? Did we really have spear-and-shield-armed fellows in green and orange pants running about at Gergovia or Alesia?

[Ldvs]

I hardly think the Gauls were superb individual fighters; I remember reading somewhere (Polybius/Tacitus/Vegetius) that they had completely no fighting skills at all, and would just swing their spathas in such a way that the Romans could just duck under their arm and deliver a gladius in the guts. Not only that, they have been recorded as swinging their swords so mediocrely that sometimes lethal swings are non-lethal because they end up whacking the legionnaire with the flat of the blade. How's that for good individual fighting.

Hmm, a thought. How accurate are Gaulish warbands historically? Did we really have spear-and-shield-armed fellows in green and orange pants running about at Gergovia or Alesia?

You're wrong there, they were certainly not as well-trained as the Roman legionnaires but like most of the barbarians they were a tough war-like people. As to the spear-and-shield matter, the Gauls were more known as swordmen rather than spearmen but perhaps they actually used them in battle when they couldn't afford a sword.

I think Warbands should get a bonus against mounted troops though. They have spears, and the description for the similar mercenary warband unit suggests they should be effective against cavalry, but they receive no bonus. So I gave them a +2 bonus anyway. Not a lot, but better than nothing.

In the Darthmod the spear warbands get a bonus against mounted units and it really makes them much tougher. By the way, I recommend this mod for those who don't want a big mod like SPQR or RTR. It seems the AI behaves better both on the campaign map (Carthage lasts longer) and on the battlefield thanks to modified formations.

[SpencerH]

Forests are awesome for barbs like the germans. Cav become mincemeat due to their -6 penalty. It seems like roman units can't move as fast and their morale seems to drop. What I found is cool is a small line of axemen with screeching women and off to the side ready to flank is a mass of night raiders, chosen axemen, and skirmishers.

The problem I've had with forest combat though is that it's tough to see what's going on so the battles become vast uncontrollable melees (which is not how I prefer to play).

[Barbarossa82]

I have also learned to appreciate the hardness of Gaulish warbands, albeit from the perspective of their victims, er, I mean opponents.
Playing as Julii on medium (i suck as a general, which might also explain why I lost), I attacked a Gaulish army between Mediolanum and Patavium. They had their faction leader, about 8 warbands, 2 barbarian cav and 3 skirmisher warbands. I had my newly-ordained first legion (all totally inexperienced but at full strength) of one general, 4 velites, 4 equites, 10 hastati and a unit of wardogs.
The gauls hung out on the edge of the forest, not quite within it but enough to stop me flanking them without going through the trees. Not only did their three skirmisher warbands, from behind their own lines, nearly wipe out my four velites for nearly no loss, but their cavalry mangled mine. As my hastati approached, the gauls started their warcry. I had my hastati chuck their pila and then pile in. 10 units on 8. Within about 6 seconds, every single hastati unit had routed.
I don't know what I could have done differently really, all I can say is that warcry beefs them up massively. It wasn't until I started getting principes and some experienced hastati that I was really able to do them some damage.

[Khorak]

I just like how many of them are. Use enough of them and it gets to the point where there's simply too much for the enemy to deal with.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I highly doubt the Gauls used mostly swords. Swords were expensive and took much longer to make than spears, which were cheap and quick to produce. The spear is also in many ways a more practical weapon, because it can take on cavalry and allows the user more distance4 between himself and his foe's instrument of death. The Gauls were known for making exceptionally big swords, but they may not have made them in huge quantities, probably no where near as many as their spears.

[Craterus]

Maybe they used a balance? That would seem the intelligent idea.

[Arrowhead]

I like Chosen axmen more than Chosen swordsmen .

Oh no Craterus is about to get 900 Posts... wow.

[The Stranger]

oh my god a average 28 posts a day. this guy is crazy

[Craterus]

This is 901.. lol... the average is slipping, I can't keep up with my former self.. I tihnk it will drop to 20 posts per day if not less. :( lol

I prefer chosen axemen too. Or better, Beserkers.

[pezhetairoi]

wow, big difference ;-) Impressive, still. How much time DO you spend on totalwar daily, craterus? and, back to the debate, strange that when I played julii i managed to beat up gaulish warband armies that outnumbered me (not counting reinforcements) on a regular basis. Maybe it's because they didn't warcry. How do you people tell if warbands are warcrying? I always could never tell, given the ambient battlenoise.

[Colovion]

haha, the computer doesn't use tactics

if you grasp even the basic principles behind battlefield tactics you'll whipe the floor with the AI every time

it's not your units man, it's the lack of intelligent opponents

why else has my Spain campaign been a cakewalk? their amazing units? HA!

[Dark_Magician]

The problem I've had with forest combat though is that it's tough to see what's going on so the battles become vast uncontrollable melees (which is not how I prefer to play).

I wish there was an option of switching off trees.. as for forest, this gives not only bonus vs cavalry, bonus to many barbarian units, but also bonus to ambush. In RTW you can let them come very close to you and then strike. With warcry on must be really scary. Imagine - suddenly, quiet forest is filled with hordes, screaming in demonic voices, stretching from one edge to another and running toward you from just about 30 metres away en mass