The greatest last stand ever...

[tibilicus]

What is the greatest last stand ever? And if so why is it?

[Byzantine Prince]

Leonidas at Thermopylae. Certain death awaited and he took it like a man when he could have just as easily run away like the cowardly Persians. 300 people versus thousands upon thousands of barbarian hordes, and no flinching.

[Duke Malcolm]

Oh, that's a good movie.

Gordon's Last Stand, fighting muslim rebels in Khartoum. He martyred himself for God, and the Empire, for Queen and Country, for home, family, friends, and his regiment.

[DemonArchangel]

Constanine XI (Constantinople, 1453).

[ShadesPanther]

Gloucestershire Regiment in Korea

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/korea/Imjin.html

[Colovion]

Jesus on the Cross :P

[discovery1]

Constanine XI (Constantinople, 1453).

Have to agree with you on this. The last stand of the Romans has to be it.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Id say the battle of Rorke's Drift except they werent killed

[The Wizard]

Leonidas at Thermopylae. Certain death awaited and he took it like a man when he could have just as easily run away like the cowardly Persians. 300 people versus thousands upon thousands of barbarian hordes, and no flinching.

Blah blah -- the battle probably was characterized by the Persians shooting at the tight Spartan phalanx from a safe distance, say over the wall which had been constructed at Thermopylae. Do not let yourself be deluded by contemporary Greek accounts... they do not take into account the Persian style of waging war.

150,000 Persians? A nice scaling down of Herodotus' outrageously stupid 1,000,000, a fine example of Greek jubilation about their victory (justified) and their glorification of it (unjustified). Do not trust any fact offered in contemporary sources. But the most propable number remains no more than 80,000 Persians, a massive force for the time.

Of course, the Spartans would have tried to counterattack to be of use, and, behind their wall they could have held out for quite a while. Hence the little backroute which brought the equally proficient 'Immortals' into direct combat with the Spartans, quickly crushing what remained of their number.

Anyways, for me a beautiful last stand is encapsulated within another famous battle: Waterloo. Marshal Ney's repeated (if futile) attacks upon Wellington's center were truly amazing, especially considering the good man only retreated at nightfall. He truly deserves his title of Les Brave des Braves!

But, for me, there is an even better last stand since it is carried out by brave men from my own country. At the battle of the Java Sea, 27th of february 1942, the CSF (Combined Striking Force), a fleet consisting of 12 ships from several Allied powers, including Holland, under command of rear admiral Karel Doorman, was ordered by admiral Thomas C. Hart to attack a heavily escorted Japanese convoy, under command of rear admiral Shoji Nishimura.

Soon enough, a whole lot went wrong. When the HMS Exeter, a British heavy cruiser, was hit, it retreated back to port. Three cruisers started to follow it, thinking it was a manoeuvre. Schout-bij-nacht (rear admiral) Doorman, to prevent confusion, said, "All ships follow me." In Dutch, he is reported to have said "Ik val aan -- volgt mij!" (I'm attacking -- follow me!)

He did -- his ship, the light cruiser HNLMS De Ruyter (a fateful name indeed, if not altogether ironic) was subsequently sunk by the Japanese flagship, the heavy cruiser Haguro, which hit the De Ruyter with long lance torperdoes.

Like most last stands, it was a military loss. But this heroic action of Doorman's, however downplayed by the fact that he was commander of a ship with a crew of 375, deserves to be mentioned indeed.



~Wiz

[Afonso I of Portugal]

I think we should separate a few things. There was many heroic last stands in history, in every periods: Greek/Roman; Barbarian invasions of roman empire; Medieval; Crusades; the "Reconquista", Age of Discoveries, and so on...

[Franconicus]

I have another one. Though I do not know the whole story. Maybe s.o. helps!
And my last stand didn't die. Sorry!

I once red a book about a Japanese soldier. He fought in WW 2 on a forgotten island. The American invaded after ship artillery and bomb carpet. The Japanese lost contact to his unit and after a final Banzai he was still alive. He was hiding in the jungle. There he was found in the early 70ies - after 25 years. He had no doubt that the war was still goung on. He was sure that Japan would win and that the Imperial fleet would come and take the island back!

What a last stand! Noone can compete with Japanese!!

[Gregoshi]

Yes, I remember that Franconicus. As I recall he had heard that the war was over, but thought it was an American trick or propaganda. An interesting selection, though he must not have been fighting too hard or he'd have been noticed much sooner. Still you have to admire his dedication.

[kallitheus]

What about the battle at Rorke's Drift(january 22,1879,a short after the battle of Isandlwana,where 95 british infantrymen aided by some 40 medical personnel and patients,defended for 12 hours a hospital and a storehouse atop a small hill,against 4000 Zulus?

The facts:

Weapons:Martini Henry .45 / javelins,spears,clubs,shields,some firearms captured by the British.

Casuatlies:15 dead,2 died to wounds afterward / about 600.

The honor:

Eleven of Rorke's Drift defenders were awarded the Victorian Cross.

[Petrus]

What is the greatest last stand ever? And if so why is it?

Leonidas stand is probably the greatest example of sacrifice in history.

I think also to the old guard in waterloo, that covered the routing of the imperial army, most of them died in this occasion.

In february 1916 in the wood of caure, the two battalions of chasseur à pied commanded by Driand fought during two days against two prussian armies at the start of the battle of verdun. They blocked the progression of the invaders and probably saved the french army of a disaster. Of 1500 men at the start, a few dozen came back alive.

In september 1942 in stalingrad, the 13 th division of fusilliers of the guard landed on the west shore as the nazi's armys where storming the city and that the resistance had almost been shattered. They immediatly assaulted and repulsed the krauts that had almost reached the docks. In the day that followed, they where the only organized soviet force in stalingrad and managed to keep the city out of nazi's grab. In the two month that followed, they fought, among other soviet troops, the worst battle in history. When the german's 6 th army surrendered about 50 of the original 10000 fusilliers where still alive.

And even if this was not their final stand, i think the defense of bastogne by the american 101 th airborne has it's place here, as at the time Mc Auliffe answered 'nutsl' to the german's offer of surrender he was completely surrounded, very outgunned and ignored how things could evolve in the coming days.

[Spino]

The Battle of Thermopylae, hands down.

True, the Spartans were initially been backed by a few thousand allied Greek troops but on the third and final day it was down to Leonidas and whomever was actually left alive of his original 300 Spartans and a handful of Tegeans and other volunteers who decided to tough it out to the bitter end.

[Al Khalifah]

but on the third and final day it was down to Leonidas and whomever was actually left alive of his original 300 Spartans and a handful of Tegeans and other volunteers who decided to tough it out to the bitter end.

They all died before the sun was even at its highest in the sky by most accounts. So in other words very quickly. Most accounts also suggest they had practically no effective weapons by this point too, most shields and armour having been rendered useless, spear shafts broken, short swords bluntened beyond repair. Most of the Spartans warriors, including Leonidas were also mortally wounded by this point too. The most effective warriors at this stage would probably have been the helot auxilaries some of whom equiped bows who could at least pick up used arrows. The Spartans had no chance and the final day of the battle was most likely a massacre.

Is this really a great last stand or ignorance of fate? I know the Spartan code of military and personal conduct, but if you are going to class the third day as heroic then why not say Custer's charge was a heroic last stand. The first two days had purpose and achieved something great and were heroic beyond modern reckoning, the third day was just a glorification of death in combat.

Death is not glorious. Trust me, when you've seen death from violence or warfare first hand, your opinion of bravery and glory will be different.

[caesar44]

They all died before the sun was even at its highest in the sky by most accounts. So in other words very quickly. Most accounts also suggest they had practically no effective weapons by this point too, most shields and armour having been rendered useless, spear shafts broken, short swords bluntened beyond repair. Most of the Spartans warriors, including Leonidas were also mortally wounded by this point too. The most effective warriors at this stage would probably have been the helot auxilaries some of whom equiped bows who could at least pick up used arrows. The Spartans had no chance and the final day of the battle was most likely a massacre.

Is this really a great last stand or ignorance of fate? I know the Spartan code of military and personal conduct, but if you are going to class the third day as heroic then why not say Custer's charge was a heroic last stand. The first two days had purpose and achieved something great and were heroic beyond modern reckoning, the third day was just a glorification of death in combat.

Death is not glorious. Trust me, when you've seen death from violence or warfare first hand, your opinion of bravery and glory will be different.

it is very interesting that when it comes to what the lacedaemonians had in their hands in the third day of the battle at noon (waow !!!) you mentioned the accounts but when these same accounts say that there were 1,000,000 persians you simply ignore it ...
so my advise - don't manipulate history we will never , never know exactly what happened there !

[Spino]

They all died before the sun was even at its highest in the sky by most accounts. So in other words very quickly. Most accounts also suggest they had practically no effective weapons by this point too, most shields and armour having been rendered useless, spear shafts broken, short swords bluntened beyond repair. Most of the Spartans warriors, including Leonidas were also mortally wounded by this point too. The most effective warriors at this stage would probably have been the helot auxilaries some of whom equiped bows who could at least pick up used arrows. The Spartans had no chance and the final day of the battle was most likely a massacre.

Is this really a great last stand or ignorance of fate? I know the Spartan code of military and personal conduct, but if you are going to class the third day as heroic then why not say Custer's charge was a heroic last stand. The first two days had purpose and achieved something great and were heroic beyond modern reckoning, the third day was just a glorification of death in combat.

Death is not glorious. Trust me, when you've seen death from violence or warfare first hand, your opinion of bravery and glory will be different.

On the third day the surviving Spartans and other Greeks lasted until just before noon because they were overwhelmed by sheer numbers and no longer had the luxury of defending the pass at a single point, they were effectively surrounded. The contingent of picked Persian troops (Immortals?) that were dispatched to follow the Greek turncoat along the hidden mountain trail were instrumental in forcing the surviving Greeks to move to that small hill and form a defensive circle near the pass before being overwhelmed.

I honestly don't know if weapons or armor were in such short supply by the third day. I'm fairly certain that given the circumstances equipment was recycled from hoplites who fell in battle on the first two days and who is to say that the Greek troops that were dismissed by Leonidas at the end of the second day didn't give their spare weapons and equipment to the Spartans and others that remained?

More importantly you're forgetting the horrendous losses sustained by Darius' troops the previous two days. Thousands if not tens of thousands were killed by the Greeks at Thermopylae. It was noted that the dead were stacked so high that subsequent waves of Persians had to climb over them to get to the Greeks. Most soldiers in the Persian army were lightly armed but I'm betting the Greeks scavenged whatever weapons, armor and equipment they could find off the dead. If such acts of scavenging were good enough for Hannibal's troops in his victories over the Romans then why couldn't the Greeks do the same? Hoplons and bronze armor may have been rare among the Persian dead but eastern style swords, light spears, heavy cloth and/or leather armor and wicker shields are better than nothing.

The last stand at Thermopylae was not without purpose and it did buy addiitonal time for the Greeks living south of the pass to evacuate their homes. The battle at Thermopylae also bought time for Athens which managed to evacuate virtually of all its citizens to relative safety. Furthermore Thermopylae was not meant to be an isolated move. Keep in mind the Persian navy was prevented from bypassing Thermopylae by the Greek navy which blockaded the narrow channel between the mainland and the the island of Euboea. This combined action between the Greeks' land and naval forces worked quite well until the Greek fleet had to withdraw and the Greeks at Thermopylae were betrayed by the traitor who led the Persians along a trail that led to the rear of the Greek position. Thermopylae was meant to be a delaying action, not a decisive battle. The last stand on the third day by the surviving Spartans and other Greeks was a symbolic one and sent a message to Darius and his satraps that the conquest and occupation of Greece would be much more difficult than first imagined.

This thread has nothing to do with heroism although I would certainly qualify the battle of Thermopylae as heroic. This thread is about famous last stands, period. SS units made numerous desperate last stands against overwhelming numbers of Soviet troops during the battle of Berlin in 1945 but no-one but a Nazi sympathizer or historical revisionist would call their acts heroic.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Men of Harlech stop your dreaming
Can't you see their spear points gleaming
See their warrior's pennants streaming
To this battle field

Men of Harlech stand ye steady
It cannot be ever said ye
For the battle were not ready
Stand and never yield

Form the hills rebounding
Let this war cry sounding
Summon all at Cambria's call
The mighty force surrounding

Men of Harlech onto glory
This shall ever be your story
Keep these fighting words before ye
Cambria (Welshmen never) will not yield

Rorkes drift, though they survived.
I'll also have to say Gordon's, Stalingrad (I dont beleive many Germans made it out alive), Custer, The Alamo, Goliad, John Moore's (at Couronna, I beleive), Berlin, and Islanhnawana (sp)

[nokhor]

oda nobunaga- the honnoji incident 1582. and constantine dragases-the fall of constantinople 1453. and i too feel that thermopylae is a little overblown, but i can see why it was so at the time.