Possible Phalanx Revelation

[Marcus Maxentius]

It was weird. I just finished a hoplite vs. hoplite custom battle and I noticed that when I had my units attack in guard mode, they were pushing foward rather than stepping to the right. Phalanxes actually gaining ground! And out of guard they stepped to the side counter clockwise. This is nice if I've stumbled on to something.
I found it useful using the pushing in guard to force enemy units who were too deep into my line. Being out of guard mode is good when say you're losing on one part of your line and you need to kill quickly or say you want to have your rightmost unit flank the enemy because of the natural rotation that's been mentioned in other posts.

The only down side I see is that you kill less in guard mode so in one on one unit confrontations, you'll get killed more often.

[The Stranger]

that's old news, very old news, probably from the stone-age

[nidpants]

as far as one-on-one goes with phalanxes, you just have to make sure you have more or equal frontage than the enemy, and use "," and "." to make sure that frontage is pointing to the enemy. as long as you keep the enemy from lapping around your rear or crushing into your flank, you should have a huge advantage over any other infantry. wheeling when the enemy line begins to lap around should keep you safe in isolated engagements

[InsaneApache]

Jeez guys...your so unforgiving, lighten up on a new member.

Thnx for the info Marcus Maxentius...

[Kekvit Irae]

I've learned something new from this thread

[Viking]

I've learned something new from this thread

Me to!

[Marcus Maxentius]

Thanks everybody and sorry if I dug up old fossils, but I'm intent on figuring out how to use a unit that gets so much flak for being nothing more than a meat shield for missle units. I did some more testing and my earlier results were a fluke it seems that the gaurd button doesn't control movement like I said.

But, I was led to another possibility after noticing that. Now, most people have two complaints about phalanxs. One is they never get close enough to engage with their spears/pikes. Two is that some of the enemy gets to close and the phalanx switches to swords.

Here is why-- Gaurd mode tells the unit to keep their distance from the enemy and only stab soliders who approach the spear points. Thye'll still try to move forward or the right whatever but always with the enemy infront not inside the pikes if possible.

Gaurd mode off causes the phalanxs to close that distance, keep moving physically closer to the enemy. The problem is that now your enemy might be stabbing at you inside your pike line. And a few of your guys are so close they use their swords.

Best solution is to attack first with gaurd on and then turn it off so you move close enough to start knocking the other side down and then turn guard mode back on to lock that distance in. And during the battle use this again to readjust as necessary.

[tibilicus]

Cool. i will try with a my spartans in my camaign later. thanks for the tip

[The_Mark]

as far as one-on-one goes with phalanxes, you just have to make sure you have more or equal frontage than the enemy

I actually find that a few ranks deeper phalanx will rip through shallow ones.

[iostream]

I actually find that a few ranks deeper phalanx will rip through shallow ones.

yup that's true. but I presume he was talking about against other non-phalanx infantry, in which case a wider front is better

[The_Mark]

Yes, to prevent wrapping.

[Jonny Dangerously]

Jeez guys...your so unforgiving, lighten up on a new member.

Thnx for the info Marcus Maxentius...

I agree.

And I didn't know that either. Thanks Marcus.

[Azi Tohak]

Gracias. That will be fun to try when I start using Phalanxes in the RTR again. And it never hurts to remind people of important things like that.

Azi

[Titus Livius]

Thanks everybody and sorry if I dug up old fossils, but I'm intent on figuring out how to use a unit that gets so much flak for being nothing more than a meat shield for missle units.

No worries, dude. I've noticed that SOME members in particular are very caustic and rude in almost every post. You've taught me something new as well.

I'm reading another book on Alexander right now and his invincible phalanx, but you'd never know they were from the way phalanxes play in the game. I would enjoy playing phalanx-factions more if I had the knowledge to make them more effective, and any help from members who take the time to experiment is much appreciated.

[Marcus Maxentius]

I felt this forum was getting too centered of late on what things don't work in the game as opposed to how things work in the game. I want to test my idea against a unit of roman legionarres with their short gladii. Against hoplites, my macedonian phalanx killed half of them with 0 casualties. I paused the game and saw how all of my pikes were gouging the greeks while they were stabbing at air. If I get the similar results, you definitely don't want to use roman infantry to hold a phalanx for a cav charge.

[Kraxis]

That depends on what kind of phalanx you are up against. Silver Shields, Sacred Band or Spartans might not be a choice target for your legionaries in a frontal attack. But Levy Pikemen and Hoplites can be held for a good while with fair casualties until the cavalry can deal with them from the rear or flank.

But yes, pikes and spears in phalanx outreach shorter weapons, and they are solid, so usually you won't suffer many losses to short weapons in the center of the unit.

[Benny Moore]

That's something I didn't know! And here's something else that a lot of people don't know. If fighting a phalanx and you have no other options, you can tell your men to run past them, and they will get past the spears. Many of your men will die this way, but they will make the phalanx raise their spears, and if you have enough men, the phalanx can then be broken.

[Marcus Maxentius]

That's one way of breaking the spear wall. Not far from what the Roman's tried historically. The first time they fought a phalanx, they thought they could run up fast enough and chop off the spear points with their swords. Bad idea.

I just tried a macedonian phalanx unit against a hastati unit and it was still a slaughter but I got burned. I mowed down the first two rows, but then they stopped and sent some of the survivors to flank me while the rest took a step back everytime I tried to step foward to stab them. Romans are too darn flexible.

[Marcus Maxentius]

But your idea would be useful for hastati, velites, or peasants. Some low value unit to mess them up with. And you decrease overpopulation, too.

[MajorFreak]

Best solution is to attack first with gaurd on and then turn it off so you move close enough to start knocking the other side down and then turn guard mode back on to lock that distance in. And during the battle use this again to readjust as necessary.

Ignore the trolls. THAT post is gold. it's not even found in the research thread dedicated to it.

[Colovion]

you'll find that in gaurd mode the phalanx attampts to hold cohesion in their formation first, and kill the enemy second - it's the opposite when out of gaurd/phalanx mode, but it's a nice balance when out of gaurd yet still within phalanx mode

[screwtype]

And here's something else that a lot of people don't know. If fighting a phalanx and you have no other options, you can tell your men to run past them, and they will get past the spears. Many of your men will die this way, but they will make the phalanx raise their spears, and if you have enough men, the phalanx can then be broken.

Hmmm....sounds like a cheat to me.

[*Ringo*]

I'm definately going to use a Phalanx based faction in my next campaign. Recently found so many cool things that you can do with them!

Cheers for the info Marcus