Idea: Intelligent Autocalc

[Bhruic]

For someone demonstrating such a lack of 'clue' as to what's being discussed, suggesting that others read properly is laughable.

No one is suggesting editing the game. The suggestion is aimed at either the expansion, or a future game. It is a suggestion designed to remove some tedium from the game, so that the player can focus on areas that they might enjoy more. So stop talking about "trainers", or "punishment", or whatever other misconceptions you're bringing to this thread, and try and focus on the pros/cons of the actual idea.

Bh

[Shambles]

Ok CON,
Newb will continue to use aut calc
CON
battles that could have been lost Due to a Mistakee Are now able to be won Purly becous you didnt make a mistake in the past,
CON
No Affect of lack of leader ship when There is No leadership,
CON
After a Number of wins Auto calc would make you Invulnerable to defeat,

Even if you may have made a mistake in the actual battle and could have sufferd great losses, Becous your now using Auto calc You would win as auto calc would Not be able to mimic that mistake that You could have made,

Pro.
It will keep newbies happy,
Pro,
It will make game run faster

Looks like Cons out weigh the pros. "at least in my oppinion"
Ive played my share of games where people have decided "to mkae it better"

Ive witnessed beta testers say This is great Impliment it imediatly,

And then within a few weeks No 1 plays that game any more,
And the beta testers are the 1st to leave,

By all means a inteligent auto calc would be nice,
But that Auto calc must also take in to consideration human error,
And if you can Program That thing to mimic that 100% then theres no Problem,

Like i said,

Ive decimated huge armies with 1 group of archers,
and even though they eventualy routed and lost the battle, they did some decent damage, Becous of the way AI attacked,

Now If i can do it,
Im shure the pc can do it as well.





EDIT______

If the AI also used auto calc in this way,
Say mori had been beating uesgi all day long,
And then u come along with Twice as many men,

Auto calc would just let you win,
Even if mori had been beating people sencless all day with Less men than the opponent,

So wouldnt it be better To also impliment This auto calc for the AI,
I.e

Mori had 100 archers,
who were attacked by 200 asgari samurai, (also ai)
and mori won.
yet if you went in there with your same 200 asgari against his 100 archers,
and you had been wining previous battles,
Auto calc would say You won,

But if you implimented it for th ai as well,
Then Mori could indeed beat you.

This would be fair,
But it would also render your Idea Pointless,

[Colovion]

Ok CON,
Newb will continue to use aut calc
CON
battles that could have been lost Due to a Mistakee Are now able to be won Purly becous you didnt make a mistake in the past,
CON
No Affect of lack of leader ship when There is No leadership,
CON
After a Number of wins Auto calc would make you Invulnerable to defeat,

Even if you may have made a mistake in the actual battle and could have sufferd great losses, Becous your now using Auto calc You would win as auto calc would Not be able to mimic that mistake that You could have made,

Pro.
It will keep newbies happy,
Pro,
It will make game run faster

Looks like Cons out weigh the pros. "at least in my oppinion"
Ive played my share of games where people have decided "to mkae it better"

Ive witnessed beta testers say This is great Impliment it imediatly,

And then within a few weeks No 1 plays that game any more,
And the beta testers are the 1st to leave,

By all means a inteligent auto calc would be nice,
But that Auto calc must also take in to consideration human error,
And if you can Program That thing to mimic that 100% then theres no Problem,

Like i said,

Ive decimated huge armies with 1 group of archers,
and even though they eventualy routed and lost the battle, they did some decent damage, Becous of the way AI attacked,

Now If i can do it,
Im shure the pc can do it as well.

This time read what im saying Please.

You're basing your entire argument on:

Now If i can do it,
Im shure the pc can do it as well.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA

[Shambles]

And whats your argument?

Your to lazy to play the game?

and
Your quote

"No, it just means you are more likely to win a battle. Assuming that you've always won in the past."

Thats the best way to ruin a game,

take away the human eliment,
Human error is a Huge part off any battle,
and here you are taking it away.

"Im shure that will make the game great"
I mean
Stack the odds up against the ai why dont you?

We all know that auto calc is The only real way they get any real kills,
So why do you want to render the game This easy?

Ive already said,
its a good idea if you can factor in human error,
Which I already know you cant,
So untill you can, I dont think its a good idea.

Aso unless you can Impliment it for the ai as well,
I dont see why you want to Do this to any game,

Its really to much to concider.
i mean really To make it worth doing,
the pc would need to remember every ai moove every ai battle
under what conditions they were,
On which type of terain,
What types of units did the most damage, Which died the most,
Who utilized them most efcivley, and a whole host of other variables.
And then it has to remember your mooves as well,

And then has to calculat All the variables AND Impliment Human error factors, "for both sides"

I mean... How much ram and processor power are we talking about here?


"i actualy like the sounds of what i said And would really apretiate a auto calc that could do that (but theres no way any 1 can make 1)"

If your going to do it Do it right.
if not Why bother, It will just make game even easyer.

and if this isnt constructive Critisim then i dunno what is.

[Colovion]

And whats your argument?

Your to lazy to play the game?

Then stop playing it m8

Stop trolling. Your whole objection to the great idea of making a feature work better is ridiculous. You're assuming that becasue you can do something, that the AI should be able to. They can't. We know that. It's a fact.

It has nothing to do with being lazy, it has to do with an auto calculation being off what the actual outcome would be according to past battles.

By the way, if you never use auto-calc, why are you arguing against making the feature better? You seem so vehement against this idea that you've forgotten that you don't even use it and thereby don't have any say in how it is changed. It's like someone who never drives a car arguing that gas taxes should be increased so that people won't be so lazy and drive everywhere.

[Shambles]

Ok i will go and use auto calc Then.
Just to make you happy.

Bythe way.
I edited Above post Prety substantialy.

So please re read it,


-Edit-
I have read the previous posts
and I know what its sposed to do,
But it will never work Becous It eliminates Any variable of error from the human,

P.s

I know that You say That the AI cannot hold back a large army with 100 archers, And inflict decent damage before routing,

But they can In auto calc.
And seing as I can also do the same To there huge army with my 100 archers, "not using auto calc"
Id say Its fair,


"It's like someone who never drives a car arguing that gas taxes should be increased so that people won't be so lazy and drive everywhere. "

Once "gas" fumes stop poluting the air people who dont drive breathe your parodighm will be corect.
Untill then its not.

But i do see what you mean,
However I beleve You Toataly Fail to see what I mean,

I dont see why I should repeat my self though,
Sio if you could kindly re read the Final few paragraphs of the last post i made,
Im shure you should see what I mean.

Ive dited This post and last post Lots.
Cos realy There would be Lots of posts here otherwize.

[oompalumpa]

I suggested this idea a while ago for EB (or was it RTR 6.0? I cant remember). Anyway, I think it is hardcoded so they cant do that, but it would be an awesome idea.

[Bhruic]

We all know that auto calc is The only real way they get any real kills,
So why do you want to render the game This easy?

And right there you lost any credibility you might have had (which wasn't much). You claim that's the only way the AI will get any real kills. But you don't play with it. Therefore, you obviously aren't interested in having the AI get any real kills, so therefore cannot use that as an excuse for your argument.

Therefore, as Colovision stated, you are merely trolling. Any further posts from you at this point on will be ignored.

Good day.

Bh

[Shambles]

Well Im happy with what i have said,
Some 1 some where will read these posts From a non biast standpoint,
And relize "hes got a point"

[Red Harvest]

Shambles and Shellshock you have missed the point and are off in left field. Nothing I suggested would work at all as you have stated. Sit down and think through the scenarios you suggested, they don't come out as you projected.

I'll make one thing clear: such a feature wouldn't help a novice in the least until their skills improve past what the AI can do. If they have trouble with battles because they are new, their autocalc factors would be poor. (This is an area where I would propose actually having it use the "neutral" autocalc, unless they are playing a higher difficulty setting.) And autocalcing a battle wouldn't have ANY impact on future autocalcs, only fighting battles would because only they feed the factor.

What it will help is in reducing tedium. The game is decidedly boring after a point.

Experienced players don't use autocalc for the most part because it doesn't come close to reflecting realistic results. For example: attacking a single unit of archers with 1200 men in open desert should not result in only a few archers being killed, the rest escaping, and all of your own elephants being slaughtered...my own 1st experience with autocalc.

[Colovion]

haha, nice backpeddling

you're contradicting yourself, dismissing valid arguments, and insulting those who use a feature within the game. You even have some strange dismissal of my metaphor which hits you dead-on and continue to blaze a trail through your ridiculousness and well into meandering stubborness.

I can see you're not worth arguing with as you go back and change your opinions as their folly is laid bare.

Good day.

[Bhruic]

Ok CON,
Newb will continue to use aut calc

If a 'newbie' already uses autocalc, then changes to it won't matter. They'd have to play actual battles for it to change at all.

CON
battles that could have been lost Due to a Mistakee Are now able to be won Purly becous you didnt make a mistake in the past,

No, it just means you are more likely to win a battle. Assuming that you've always won in the past.

CON
No Affect of lack of leader ship when There is No leadership,

What "lack of leadership"? The only "leadership" in a battle comes from your general. Anything else is just the player playing a battle.

CON
After a Number of wins Auto calc would make you Invulnerable to defeat,

And where did you get that ridiculous idea from? No one said anything about winning making you invincible, or anything close to it. The idea is to make autocalc'd battles closer match the players battles. You'd have to be invincible in your played battles for it to even remotely be an issue.

Even if you may have made a mistake in the actual battle and could have sufferd great losses, Becous your now using Auto calc You would win as auto calc would Not be able to mimic that mistake that You could have made,

So your big argument against basically comes down to "well, you might make a mistake"? Great argument.

Besides which, the random factor involved would still emulate a "mistake" anyway.

Ive decimated huge armies with 1 group of archers,
and even though they eventualy routed and lost the battle, they did some decent damage, Becous of the way AI attacked,

Now If i can do it,
Im shure the pc can do it as well.

Uh, have you even played the game? There is no way the AI could be that effective. Even in 4vs1 odds battles, the AI barely has a chance of winning. To suggest that the AI, when vastly outnumbered, has even the remotest chance of winning is absurd.

If the AI also used auto calc in this way,
Say mori had been beating uesgi all day long,
And then u come along with Twice as many men,

Auto calc would just let you win,
Even if mori had been beating people sencless all day with Less men than the opponent,

So wouldnt it be better To also impliment This auto calc for the AI,
I.e

Mori had 100 archers,
who were attacked by 200 asgari samurai, (also ai)
and mori won.
yet if you went in there with your same 200 asgari against his 100 archers,
and you had been wining previous battles,
Auto calc would say You won,

But if you implimented it for th ai as well,
Then Mori could indeed beat you.

This would be fair,
But it would also render your Idea Pointless,

And once again you demonstrate your complete lack of comprehension of the idea. Let me state this just once more, on the off chance it'll sink in (in bold, maybe that'll help you notice it):
The idea is to make autocalc fight more like the player themself fights.

That's it. Since the AI never actually fights a battle vs other AI, then how could this idea be applied to the AI at all (obvious answer: it can't). You keep telling people to "read what you write". Perhaps you should try that yourself.

Bh

[screwtype]

Ok CON,
Newb will continue to use aut calc

Why would they? Most of the fun of this game is about playing battles yourself. Why would people want to deprive themselves of the fun and challenge by autocalcing everything? Sorry, this claim just doesn't make sense.

CON
battles that could have been lost Due to a Mistake Are now able to be won Purly becous you didnt make a mistake in the past

The idea is to have a reliable autocalc you can use to fight those battles that are overwhelmingly in your favour. You are unlikely to ever lose such battles, mistakes or not.

CON
No Affect of lack of leader ship when There is No leadership

I guess the autocalc would have to look at the sort of results you got at different odds. If for example you consistently got big wins fighting at odds of 1.5 to 1, then you will still get a big win fighting those odds in autocalc. The point is that the game's odds calculator already seems to take into account relative strength of units, not just raw numbers, so leaders or lack of them are already factored in.

CON
After a Number of wins Auto calc would make you Invulnerable to defeat

Only when you were fighting at odds you consistently win at.

Personally, I like Red's idea, the only caveat I would make is that there would still have to be some sort of penalty applied for using autocalc, perhaps 20-80% depending on difficulty level, ie you lose 80% more men than you normally would on the hardest difficulty, as a discouragement from using autocalc too often. But in the battles with odds overwhelmingly in your favour, this would not mean many more men lost anyhow.

Also, I would argue that you don't get any trait increases for generals when using autocalc. So if you want those command stars, you still have to fight for them!

[Bhruic]

Personally, I like Red's idea, the only caveat I would make is that there would still have to be some sort of penalty applied for using autocalc, perhaps 20-80% depending on difficulty level, ie you lose 80% more men than you normally would on the hardest difficulty, as a discouragement from using autocalc too often. But in the battles with odds overwhelmingly in your favour, this would not mean many more men lost anyhow.

Also, I would argue that you don't get any trait increases for generals when using autocalc. So if you want those command stars, you still have to fight for them!

I'm not sure why, after making a post about how some people play only with auto-calc, and how that is perfectly acceptable, you would then jump on the "penalize people for playing with auto-calc" bandwagon? As you said, playing out that battles can be one of the more entertaining parts of the game. We shouldn't need any encouragement beyond that to do so. If someone doesn't enjoy that facet of the game, and wishes to avoid it, I see no reason to penalize them for doing so.

Bh

[Red Harvest]

I don't see a reason to penalize for autocalc. The penalty should come from the difficulty levels impact on combat stats and officers. If I am facing an AI opponent that is getting a boost in command stars, morale, attack, etc. those factors alone should be sufficient. That is what the difficulty level is for.