Why can't more factions be like Egypt?

[econ21]

Like many historically minded people here, I've despised the Egyptians in RTW for their ahistorical attire and rather pumped up stats. Consequently, I've shunned them - even deliberately avoiding battling them when playing other factions. However, as Scipii, I was finally drawn into a full-blown war with them and it was such fun, it made me wonder why can't more factions can't be like them. Only Roman civil wars in RTW have provided a comparable challenge.

Specifically, the Egyptians tend to have large armies and large resources which almost no other non-Roman AI force can muster. Moreover, on the battlefield, they have units that can pose a genuine threat even when marshalled by their AI. However, ahistorical, it is rather exhilarating to face the lightning fast strikes of their heavy chariots, crashing through multiple lines of your men in crazy hit and run attacks. Their massed archer units, elite infantry, invisibly armoured axemen, infuriating archer chariots etc all mean that if you face them, you are going to lose men - unlike many other match-ups when you can escape almost unharmed.

I don't see why other large non-Roman factions could not be pumped up like this, at least on some difficulty levels. Carthage is the obvious example which historically was formiddable but in the game is underpowered when played by the AI. But Gaul, Germania, Greece and some others would also be plausible candidates for an injection of steroids. I guess what I'm asking is for the AI to be allowed to "cheat" more often - which I seem to remember was what makes some other strategy games (eg Civ2) challenging on higher difficulty levels.

[Wishazu]

i never have a problem with the ai egyptians, and thats on hardest difficulty settings, they take too many chariots which all rout at the first sign of a flaming arrow. i have suffered my worst SP defeats to the armenians of all factions, they just seem so well balanced and their cav rocks!

[Marcus Maxentius]

The Ai doesn't have to cheat necessarily, it just has to have a stronger grasp of military tactics and formations. I would love to see more formations like I've seen in history books such as the slant formation or box formation for phalanxes. The whole system of the AI choosing a formation based on priority level and unit composition is stupid because it favors one or two formations regardless of terrain, objective, or opponent. It also has to stop controlling units of men as if they were individual soldiers in an RTS running around pell-mell.

[AntiochusIII]

If people are desperate enough to make an uber-cheating faction that is completely unbalanced (and thus, boring same map every game) only to create a challenge, the AI needs improvement.

[Colovion]

seemingly, the factions given the most effort, besides the Romans, was the Egyptians.

It shouldn't make your eyes widen when you realize that the Egyptians are totally wrong, that's obvious. It should, however, give you pause when you consider that CA spent all that time making the faction be totally different than they were historically and didn't give the same amount of effort to the Cartheginians who were, historically, Rome's supreme adversary. Well, besides where they're located on the map.

[HarunTaiwan]

I agree. Carthage was not given enough oomph in my book.

[The Stranger]

carthage in RTR can also train huge'amounts of armies, and britannia is good too. if you don't stop the macedonians they'll overun everything.

[The Stranger]

and almost forgot thrace

[Brutus]

carthage in RTR can also train huge'amounts of armies, and britannia is good too. if you don't stop the macedonians they'll overun everything.

Ah, Britannia... Talking about unrealistic... They are way to succesfull against the AI, I mean, having Britons raiding deep into Germania is just...weird...

Or you would have to believe that even in those days Britannia ruled the waves

[Mikeus Caesar]

the Cartheginians who were, historically, Rome's supreme adversary.

After all, in reality the Carthaginians nearly destroyed Rome. When i frist played this game, i was expecting the Gauls to be sending huge hordes into the Alps, and the mighty Carthaginians invading Italy. Instead, i had gaul sending tiny little stacks of about 100 men which weren't cool, but just annoying and i had Carthage wiped out within 20 turns by the Scipii. Carthage didn't even gain territory, they continually lost it.

[tibilicus]

Ye i agree. Rome are way to over powered so are egypt. Its normaly Egypt Rome Britannia maby and what ever faction you are at the end. Dsnt really folow a historical realism....

[Longshanks]

I agree. Carthage was not given enough oomph in my book.

Carthage by far was the biggest disappointment in Rome: Total War. What should have been the most formidable faction in the game after the Romans ended up being one of the weakest. The game utterly fails in recreating the power struggle between the Roman & Carthaginian Empires.

[Hazzyguy]

You guys hit the nail on the head. I'm not good at modding, but I'm always trying to make the severly underpowered Carthaginians more formidable.

[AntiochusIII]

You guys hit the nail on the head. I'm not good at modding, but I'm always trying to make the severly underpowered Carthaginians more formidable.

You could start by editing the stats of Libyan spearmen and Punic infantry. It's an easy task, to begin with; easier than giving Carthage scutarii properly (which requires .pak extracting to make a unit card) or give them more provinces. And, it has historical background for it too. The Libyan spearmen, more properly a sort of African recruits by Carthage from "subject" cities, are known as EQUALS to Roman Legions (Principes/Triarii) in battle. They just weren't numerous enough to make up the majority of Carthage's army. They made up the core, though. And of course, the actual Punic infantry were trained historically only in Carthage and are very few in number. Undoubtly, they're the most devoted and reliable unit for Carthage's army after the Sacred Bands...

They suck in game.

[RollingWave]

I would think the biggest problem with the AI is their seige, losing field battle a individual stacks is nothing, but losing a city or losing a army trying to take one is very bad, and in both the RTW AI excel at ......

Seriously I can only recall one time i acturally lost a seige assult to the AI, and that time i was so outnumbered (I had 2 milita cav, 3 miltia hoplit and a general vs a full stack of eastern infantry and pontic cavs in a wooden wall city) while the AI also makes very poor decision defending seiges too, (although not as horrid as charging a whole army head on through boiling oil gates into 6 group of spartans.)

[The Stranger]

Ah, Britannia... Talking about unrealistic... They are way to succesfull against the AI, I mean, having Britons raiding deep into Germania is just...weird...

Or you would have to believe that even in those days Britannia ruled the waves

hahahahaha had that too. but i cut their supply lines and eliminated the britons

[AntiochusIII]

hahahahaha had that too. but i cut their supply lines and eliminated the britons

Chariots are super, super ugly cheats in autocalc battles. Elephants may have merits that they can turn any battle upside down (on any side...) and thus have high autocalc value. But, chariots? Com'on, THAT is obsolete. Since AI vs AI fought only in autocalc, their chariots won virtually every battles for them, except being outnumbered or fought against the human player. That's why they owned the poor Gauls and Germans.

Good riddance for them, thanks, RTR!

[The Stranger]

RTR didn't eliminate brythonic chariots, but eastern ones like egypt's, pontus and seleucids chariots

[player1]

Well Carthaginians have one of the worst infantry units in the game: Iberian Infantry. Compare that to Hastati, or better yet to ordinary Warband. Also, their first cavalry unit is so, so...

[The Stranger]

and they have CARTHAGE that means that they are able to build hordes of iberian infantry. so the overwhelm every faction in the beginning. and their rectruitment tab is quite impressive

infantry

iberian infantry
lybian infantry
celtiberian scutarii
poeni infantry
armoured scutarii
heavy carthaginian infantry
sacred legionares (sacred band)

missile

skirmishers
archers

cavalry

round shields
long shields
sacred band cavalry
eles

well beat that

[Barbarossa82]

Carthage don't get archers unless you mod them in (which I've done - history be damned, they need the boost!) Still haven't noticed them making much progress as an AI faction though.

[chef4fun2]

I can not understand why the Seleucid are not a power house in the game? They have the best of all worlds, Elephants,chariots,phalanxes and killer CAV. When I play them I have no issue with any faction. But when I play someone else they seem to be killed off pretty fast.

[tibilicus]

The Selucids are a power house faction. Unfortuantly they never have a chance to build cities as at the start they only get militia hoplites. Egypt can het Nile spear men quite quick so the Selucids normaly get to boot early unfortunatly.

[vastator]

RTR didn't eliminate brythonic chariots, but eastern ones like egypt's, pontus and seleucids chariots

Why did RTR get rid of the Pontic chariots? Mithridates VI used scythed chariots in his wars against Rome in the 1st century BC. I think he may have been the last person to do so. BTW, did RTR also get rid of the British chariot archers and replace them with (historically accurate) javelin throwers?

[The Stranger]

VASTATOR
eh maybe they didn't but i did. but i thought egyptian and seleucids chariots are deleted.

CHEF4FUN
they get their good units relativly late in the game. so they rely on levíes almost all the way. egyptians and other eastern factions get good units faster.

BARBAROSSA84
in my RTR campaign they controlled spain and north-west AFRICA

[AntiochusIII]

RTR didn't eliminate brythonic chariots, but eastern ones like egypt's, pontus and seleucids chariots

Well, yes, the chariots are still there. But the expansive Briton faction is gone for good in 6.0 Thus, they will not disturb the prosperous lands of Gaul and Germania.

That's mean a stronger Gaul and Germania, and thus, a more dynamic Barbarian wars. The Gauls were a powerful and influential people, though disunited, in history. The Britannic Celts were not. While the Germans, well, they had a major role in history.

Pontus will possess its scythed chariot, I think.

The Seleucids rarely use any chariots at all in most battles, hence they must be gone, or else the AI will abuse them.

The Egyptian chariots are a disgrace.

[chef4fun2]

VASTATOR
eh maybe they didn't but i did. but i thought egyptian and seleucids chariots are deleted.

CHEF4FUN
they get their good units relativly late in the game. so they rely on levíes almost all the way. egyptians and other eastern factions get good units faster.

BARBAROSSA84
in my RTR campaign they controlled spain and north-west AFRICA

Your right to a point. If the Seleucid can make it 10 to 15 years they should be able to start making the goodies that they have and than start kicking major butt! I was able to by than and than the game got really fun. I was wondering has anyone given them more money at the start to see if that would help them? I would love to put my Macedon stacks ver there adv. stacks. That would be fun

[The Stranger]

well in vannilla their money is cut from 5000 to 3000. but in RTR it's raised from 3000 to 9000. i don't know if it helps but i think it will expands their lifespan.