Discussion and Announcements

[Zarax]

Nice touch, great job...

[DimeBagHo]

I've made some changes to the way that Carthage recruits units. They should have mercenary heavy armies, but there seems to be no good way to make that happen just by adding in more mercenaries for hire. So I figured I might as well just let them train a variety of mercenary units. I made a few other changes as well.

Carthage now has three areas of recruitment: Carthage, Africa, and Spain. Sacred Band, and Sacred Band Cavalry, are only recruitable in Carthage and New Carthage. Iberian Infantry, Iberian Cavalary, and Iberian Mercenaries are only recruitable in Spain. Desert Peltasts, Desert Infantry, Libyan Infantry, Numidian Cavalry, Desert Cavalry, Desert Camel Warriors, and Desert Camel Archers, are only recruitable in Africa. Carthaginian Spearmen are only recruitable outside of Africa (these are low quality auxilaries). Also Poeni infantry can now be recruited, in two turns, with a City Barracks, while Sacred Band can be recruited in two turns with an Army Barracks.

[Zarax]

I think that's a bit too complex for the AI to manage...

If you import the changes I made in the add-on pack some posts ago you might want to build the resources this way:

Carthage: Sacred Band units

Africa: Lybian spears and numidian mercenaries

Spain: Iberian infantry and spanish mercenaries

Everywhere: Phoeni infantry (can use 2 turns if you mod them with +1 to 2nd attack and short pikes but still in phalanx so they can use both weapons effectively), round and long shield cavalry plus the usual auxiliaries.

I would also add to their roster the following units, as their equivalents were used historically:

- Phalanx pikes (at the same barracks level as phoeni), the seleucid skin fits nicely there (and actually the seleucid helped carthage in the 2nd punic war, there are second hand sources that states they even sent some manpower but it is certain they gave "military advisors" plus they gave shelter to hannibal after Zama... too bad they didn't trust him enough to command the army at magnesia)

- Light lancers were also used (though they were most likely gauls or spaniards) though that would take a bit more work on the model as there is no fitting skin for them...

Also, here's a couple things you may want to evaluate ask permission for:

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=546 - This is a set of carthaginian and mercenary skins plus a few extra units

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=363 - This small mod enables the hidden distinctive walls for each culture

I hope this will be helpful...

[Ilsamir Lord]

I'll need to get this one again I think, I had a previous version and I always liked playing as the Greeks.

[Zarax]

I'd absolutely recommend it, this mod is coming up pretty nicely...

[DimeBagHo]

Zarax: The AI seems to be handling the new system OK. As far as infantry goes the line-up in each region is pretty simple. The cavalry line-up in Africa is complicated, but I don't think it matters as much if cavalry units wind up being quite diverse.

I have been playing around with ways to include Macedonian style phalanxes. It's hard to get the balance right though.

(1) AI vs Human. Having two or three phalanx units in a stack is nearly useless. You need to persuade the AI to make stacks where about half the units are phalanax so that it has a decent line. But the relatively low attack and defense values for phalanx units makes them look unattractive to the AI when they have other options available.
(2) AI vs AI. Phalanx units get screwed in autocalc. Again, they have relatively low attack and defence values, and autocalc doesn't seem to weigh the phalanx ability high enough.
(3) Human vs AI. If you fix (1) and (2) then human players find it too easy to play the faction. Macedonian style phlanxes in general make life too easy for human players because they are so unbreakable from the front.

Of ccourse these are already problems for other Macedonian style factions - I just don't want to add them to the Carthaginians as well, especially when they have so much trouble holding up against the Romans as it is.

I suppose one solution would be to drop long pikes enitirely and use the shorter pike to represent the Macedonian style phalanx.

[DimeBagHo]

I suppose one solution would be to drop long pikes enitirely and use the shorter pike to represent the Macedonian style phalanx.

The more I think about it the more I like this idea. The different pike lengths are totally ahistorical - everyone was using longer pikes by the time of the game period. But there were other significant differences in the way that phalangites were equiped. Some used relatively small shields and light armour, others appear to have used relatively large shields and heavy armour. So it would still make sense to differentiate along the lines of smaller heavier units vs larger lighter units.

Balancing would also be *much* easier without the long pikes.