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Thread: Question about the Rebels

  1. #1
    Member Member tool Dude's Avatar
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    Smile Question about the Rebels

    I almost forgot if tha rebels have produce any units during the SP campaign. If Im not mistaken they produced some units last time when i played. Lately they seem like they dont. So...just wana make sure...do they?

    Thanx.

  2. #2
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    I am pretty sure that they do not. Maybe the rebels incorporated some other rebels that fled from a province you could not see in your former game.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    Cover an enemy province in Shinobi. Lo and behold the Rebels will produce craploads! ;)

    Although I know have an army of Shinobi (34+) at Honor 5 and 6 in an Oda province. Oda has around 800 men.... and every turn, I produce a rebellion but the rebels flee. Except they don't flee into the neighboring Rebel province, they flee into nothingness. Damned uncooperative Rebels!
    "Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity...
    ... the product of screwing being newborn virgins and the product of pacification wars being peace."

  4. #4
    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    Rebels training their own troops will depend on a couple of key factors:

    1) The campaign you are playing (assuming you have Warlord Edition/Mongol Invasion; if you have the original Shogun, the the following comments regarding the classic Sengoku Jidai campaign apply). In the classic Sengoku Jidai campaign, rebel production is moderate and usually won't get out of hand unless you occupy provinces that border theirs with good-sized armies. Game difficulty (see below) also affects the commencement and rate that additional rebel troops are produced. In the 1530 campaign, the majority of provinces are ronin, and many provinces have troop training capability (some have very advanced training facilities from the beginning of the game at higher difficulty levels--Kawachi, Yamashiro, Ise and Kaga, Tosa, and even some of the provinces in the area normally associated with the Mori). Unchecked, they will produce large armies over time, the higher the difficulty, the more troops. In the 1550 and 1580 campaigns, ronin-controlled provinces aren't as prolific and usually don't become a big problem as the clans tend to eliminate them fairly quickly.

    2) The difficulty level of the game--generally speaking, the higher the difficulty, the sooner they begin producing and the more they will produce.

    Early on, ronin-controlled provinces won't usually attack you until you attack a ronin province. Once you're at war with the ronin however (as shown in your diplomacy window), you have to be cautious of any ronin province--even ones you didn't attack. Even before you attack any of them, it's important to maintain troop number parity in your provinces that border ronin provinces. If you don't, they may attack to increase their income--particularly if your province borders their troop-production province. I've found that maintaining parity with the number of troops outside of their castle (not including those inside it), is usually sufficient for the early part of the game. Remember to consider the total number of rebel troops in all the ronin provinces that border a province of yours when considering the appropriate defense level for that province.

    ***

    Regarding Irinami's scenario, any faction's troops--ronin or otherwise--must have a "safe" province to which to flee that borders the province from which they are fleeing. If there isn't one, they will disperse and "evaporate" (this is a great way to trap enemy daimyos and elimate large armies without fighting them ...). I think the notion is that they disband and assimilate into the populace, no longer presenting an organized threat. In the case of a trapped daimyo, the shame of having lost his army and having no where to flee forces him to commit seppuku to preserve his honor (hence the little movie that will play when this happens).

    Using shinobi to instigate rebellions in clan-held provinces is a very useful tool to keep them from focusing their aggression on you. I use this tactic a lot against the Oda as they try to expand--their territory is already troubled with ronin, and when they take a new province formerly held by ronin in central Japan, a few shinobi there will pretty much guarantee a rebellion--often an Ikko Ikki rebellion with monks in the mix. If you're focused on the other clans in the east militarily, using agents to keep the Oda occupied can buy you precious time to finish up in the east. This applies to other clans in other areas as well, but may require a large number of shinobi.

    Be careful using this tactic. Pay attention to whether an enemy general consistently defeats the uprisings. If they do, their command honor will increase, and once they hit 4 stars they can become a pain in the butt if the enemy is able to reinforce them with a large number of troops. Knowing when to call off the riot-making can be important in this respect.
    Last edited by Togakure; 04-16-2005 at 09:52. Reason: corrected spelling errors
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    Member Member tool Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    Thanx folks!

    Toga...awsome explanation, thanx man.

  6. #6
    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    You're quite welcome m8 . We Shogun fanatics gotta stick together!!

    One thing I thought of after I posted the information--ronin armies are more likely to attack a clan-held neighboring province if they have a general with more command stars than the clan general in that province (also assuming troop numbers are superior, or at least similar). The bigger the difference in command stars, the more likely they will attack. If there are several ronin provinces all bordering a clan-held province that they covet, and a high-star general is produced in one of them, sometimes they will ALL attack on the next turn, under the command of the good general. Be especially careful of 4-star or better gens, as they boost the combat effectiveness of the entire attack/defense force considerably (4-5 stars = +2 honor, which means every unit under their command gets +2 attack, +2 defense, and +4 morale ... ).
    Last edited by Togakure; 04-18-2005 at 03:30.
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    Member Member tool Dude's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Question about the Rebels

    Oh, thanx for reminding me bout tha stats...you tha man Toga.

  8. #8
    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by tool Dude
    Oh, thanx for reminding me bout tha stats...you tha man Toga.
    My pleasure m8. I figured you knew most of what I've decribed in this thread, but I write in detail about a subject for the benefit of new players who might be wondering the same thing and don't have as much time in with the game. There seems to be a lot of "lurkers" in here, that read often, but don't post much.

    I think it's just that I take the time to post stuff in here. There are tons of folks that know a lot about STW, but I think most have moved on to the newer TW games (or on to different games in general) and don't come here much anymore. I've only been using this forum for about a year and a half, so I'm still somewhat fresh--that and I enjoy writing, and I'm a Shogun Diehard .
    Be intent on loyalty
    While others aspire to perform meritorious services
    Concentrate on purity of intent
    While those around you are beset by egoism


    misc kanryodo

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