EB NEWS - Friday, April 15

[Urnamma]

EB news - Friday, April 15th

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans!

I'm giving you this news post because Khelvan is taking a well deserved vacation for the weekend. Everyone wish him a good time!

This week has been a momentous one for EB. We've begun (and nearly finished) compiling what we hope to be our last internal version! The latest version includes most of our concepts and nearly 95 new units. We hope to bring that number up to 200+ (nearly half our units) before we send it off as an open beta!

Since we've come very close to completing this, I've a present for all of you. More screenshots!



Aymar du Bois Mauri is busy integrating units and making some info pics as part of this proces. Here is the Mala Gaeroas! Prometheus did a wonderful job on the unit as well.



Spartan_Warrior has been taking a bit of time off to do some celts, like the Goidilic hammer troops, shown here. Ranika has been working overtime researching these wonderful units!



Another unit of the Goidils, the spearmen! Also by Spartan_Warrior!



As you can see, the Britons have been getting a lot of attention as of late. Our new unique buildings are really taking off, thanks to the man who has been doing all the work on them, Teleklos Archelaou!

Here is the new Briton faction symbol, done by Parmenio!



I'll showcase some of my own work next, in the unit descriptions for some Hellenic units:

Ekdromoi Hoplitai:

Descriptions => Ekdromoi (Outrunner) Hoplites are a special version of the Hoplite soldier. They fight without armor and heavy equipment in order to be fast enough to catch and kill skirmishers and especially peltasts, who were the bane of the heavily armored Hoplite. Their short spears carry a nasty punch for the usually lightly armed skirmisher and are able to outrange the better armored Peltast. They carry large shields in order to make up for some of this disparity, but they are not a type of soldier meant to do prolonged melee combat with standard Hoplites. Their light weight leather armor is soft and layered with bronze plates and cloth in order to retard the missiles of the troops that they would likely be fighting. (Greek ‘brigandine’ armor) Their purpose is to serve as a professional light infantry that can neutralize the effect of missiles on the heavy infantry. The combination of light armor and speed makes this infantry a great counter to pesky missile troops. They are not particularly useful against heavier infantry or even equivalent light infantry, due to their specialized nature.

Historically, these hoplites evolved almost overnight in response to large scale use of Peltasts by Thebes and Athens after the reforms of Iphikrates. Their armor evolved as well over the years. They were originally armored with linen, but this was changed due to the fact that the linothorax was vulnerable to missile fire. The layered leather was developed after a period of trial and error and functions much like modern tank armor does against projectiles. It intersperses hard and soft layers to dissipate the effect of missile weapons. This armor, while exceedingly useful against missiles, is only marginally effective against most melee weapons, due to its lightness and the concentrated force of the arm behind the melee weapon. Once the initial force of a missile weapon is dissipated it falls away harmlessly, once the initial force of a melee weapon is dissipated its user pushes harder!

Thureophoroi:

Description => Theurophoroi were a new class of Hellenic infantry that was designed to both augment the phalanx and provide a type of soldier in between the Phalangite and the Peltast that was able to skirmish and fight in melee. They are an extremely mobile force that can hit hard with their heavy javelins then rush in to flank pike units. They are well armed and armored for the task, having stout bronze helms, linen armor, an almond shaped theuros shield, heavy javelins, and a stout spear. They are highly versatile infantry, akin in spirit to the legionaries of Rome. They are usually Pezhetairoi, middle class property owners with voting rights. As such, they are well able to devote time to training and practice. They have good morale and are highly disciplined. They were often described by Latin writers as copies of the legion. It is debatable whether they were developed with knowledge of warfare in Italy or not, they are a highly effective force of heavy infantry that is in the forefront of Hellenic military know-how.

Historically, Theurophoroi were used as harassing and flanking troops by the successor states. There seemed to be a lot of confusion as to how to utilize these new soldiers, since they were deadly in the extreme to the less mobile phalanx units. Most of the successor states used them conservatively, except for the Seleucids, who took to these new soldiers quite well. The city-states of Greece used them even more frequently against the armies of Macedon, and were often able to hold the more powerful kingdom at bay. Still, their uses were limited in scope and not as widespread as their versatile and deadly role would have indicated. This is the fault of period commanders, however, and any more astute or innovative commander might have realized their potential in conjunction with the more static Phalanx.

And a pic of the Ekdromoi, just for shits and giggles:



Brought to you by Spartan_Warrior!

Hope you enjoyed the post!

Next week we'll begin our 'Countdown to the Open Beta', where we will begin showing off our factions with full sets of units and descriptions. The Ptolemies are up first!

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

[Dooz]

...the Goidilic hammer troops.... left my mouth open... literally... that's never happened before... my sweet lord...

[Big_John]

yay, i've always been fond of hammers. you guys got this out early today.. maybe urnamma should take over the news posts from khelvan from now on.

love that unique building too.

edit: hey urnamma did you mean to use the "url" tag instead of the "img" tag on the unique building image? also, the twcenter post doesn't have that image or link at all (where it should be is text reading, "user posted image"). just fyi.

[TheTank]

Wow... those irish celts look really cool but also the new hellenic unit are very good and they don't look gay

PS: The Mala Gaeroas new shield looks even better than the old one !!

[The Stranger]

:eek: is the only thing i can say

[Colovion]

I had no idea that that wall even existed! This is what I like to see.

:drool:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Looking very good, indeed.

Crazed Rabbit

[jerby]

wall?

well the units look great, i've been a heavy thureophoroi user in RTR, I'm already drouling with the idea of seleucids using them. thureophoroi will perhaps even make archers useless.. (lets hope)

[Urnamma]

Thureophoroi themselves are actually a heavy infantry, so you may find yourself using them a lot more in EB.

[Sheep]

I had no idea that that wall even existed! This is what I like to see.

Me either! There is a giant wall somewhere that nobody ever told me about? Sheesh. Consider my mind blown.


Brilliant work on everything today guys, but I especially liked the unit descriptions. I drool over screenshots like everyone else, but I do appreciate getting to learn a little bit more than the usual one sentence about the units.

I HOPE you don't mind a little grammatical nitpicking (especially from someone with less-than-perfect grammar himself) but I think this:

"Once the initial force of a missile weapon is dissipated it falls away harmlessly, once the initial force of a melee weapon is dissipated its user pushes harder!"

...should maybe read something like:

"Once the initial force of a missile weapon is dissipated, it falls away harmlessly; once the initial force of a melee weapon is dissipated, its user pushes harder!"

Or something like that, to break up the text a little and make it sound more like someone would say it. Too bad you can't put italics in there.


So I guess this means you're not going to translate all the unit descriptions into their native language too?

[Urnamma]

Very good (although more pics would've been nice )

Sure. :cool







I'll leave you to figure out what they are.

[Simetrical]

Those warhammers look pretty awesome.

-Simetrical

[Drake22]

those bottem guys look like some sort of macedonian pike phalenyx (however its spelled)

[runes]

i'm curious as to the accuracy of a dedicated unit of hammer-wielders, yea we all know you guys have this nailed for accuracy, but it seems fairly fairytale to me. fill me in!

[Sheep]

i'm curious as to the accuracy of a dedicated unit of hammer-wielders, yea we all know you guys have this nailed for accuracy, but it seems fairly fairytale to me. fill me in!

See here (first post):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...1&page=2&pp=30

[runes]

interesting, but i'm still curious as to the historical relevancy.

i'm assuming more license is taken on some of the other factions, as less is know about them.

but what can you tell me about actual hammer-wielders as a unit?

[Idomeneas]

Great work as always. I see you have Boiotian helmets, wich is basically a cavalry helmet, for ekdromoi. Why is that? maybe a thracian or attic helmet type would be more proper. After all they were just hoplites stripped of body armour.

Oh! and what about spartans? could you show us some pics of them? Im really looking forward to see them

[AntiochusIII]

Wow, I see that the empires of Persia are more similar to the Chinese empires than I thought.

Fill me in about the forgotten great wall of Persia with a link, please?

Thanks.

Nice units, by the way, and neat descriptions.

[Birka Viking]

wow great job again EB. Can´t wait to play the open beta..

[Ranika]

Goidils used hammers in many forms, mostly as a religious type of weapon. The highest Goidilic god was Dagda ('Good God'), and he used a large hammer, so, some more fanatical warriors imitated him. They'll be small units (amassing fanatics isn't exactly easy), with a highly specialized purpose. A large hammer is a relatively poor weapon; large and slow. But it'd smash shields and armor. Later Gaels still used hammers. The hammers were probably also used in constructing camps and what not (a large hammer is pretty handy for pounding pikes into the earth), and had a pick on the back for killing lame horses (and potentially could be used to kill horses in battle). Some older versions of Celtic stories, before they were Anglicized, feature numerous champions wielding large hammers, including Cu Chullain in some versions. While those legends are myth, one also has to keep in mind, Celtic legends are pretty much universally based on actual events; even weapons had real life counterparts. Their gods, even, are based on actual people (that's probably why they had so many war gods, they were fond of combat heroes, so a good champion could quickly become a local god in only a few decades after his death).

Later on, Dal Riatans used the hammers (they were actually used mostly by the grouping of Goidilic clans in Ireland that generally used such hammers; those clans eventually settled Dal Riata). They were more practical then though, a bit lighter, and usually used by more elite soldiers or nobility, to kill other nobility, due to their heavier armors. The Irish Gaels still used hammers, but only smaller, single-handed hammers, in addition to numerous other types of clubs, cudgels, and maces, though the hammer was definitely preferred, as it doubled as an effective tool for establishing defenses. This was, likely, also a factor in iron age Goidilic warhammers; they were effective tools, and they'd smash something's head open, regardless of armor.

[Divinus Arma]

Would units with hammers be of a large size? If their primary purpose is to kill heavy infantry, why not shrink them down to 1/2 or 1/4 unit size? (kind of like beserkers in Viking Invasion)

It seems that a unit of speedy, light armed, hammer swingin fellas would be small in order to suit their purpose of specialized support.

Besides, was there really armies of hammer swingin bubbas? or was it more of an integrated thing, with hammers being used by various individuals here and there but in small numbers?

Jus' kurius.

Looks good EB. Can't wait for the beta.

[Divinus Arma]

They'll be small units (amassing fanatics isn't exactly easy), with a highly specialized purpose.

Ya. That too.

[Ranika]

I don't quite understand. I thought I'd already answered that. Or did your second reply imply that I had answered that? My English can be a bit poor sometimes. They wouldn't be 'integrated' into another unit of men, at least, not dispersed through them. Celts usually arranged their men into 'blocks' of weapon types (skirmishers in a block, spearmen in a block, etc.). These men, as small in number as they are, probably would be a single line at a forefront, to absorb the blow of heavier infantry, or to make a first move toward heavier stuff. They will be sufficiently small in number (probably no more than 20 men at most, maybe less, 16 perhaps).

However, if they were using a smaller, easier to attain hammer, the unit would likely be of normal size, but the need for lighter infantry is already filled in that regional area, and the model is being shared with some other stuff anyway, so we figured, even if they were tiny in number, the model is already there, and the unit space is available, so it's an interesting regional.

[Big_John]

cool, nice info ranika. but i have a question now (yes, it's my turn!!):

where the hammer heads actually that large? that seems crazy big! i'm familiar with medieval war hammers, and the heads on those are 1/2 the size of the goidilic ones, at most. from what i understand, sledgehammer sized heads like that would be terrifically unwieldy. what would the time be on a recovering swing? the size of the blunt face seem odd too, i mean for a war hammer. wouldn't it make more sense to have a smaller face to provide more pressure on the blow? does that have something to do with not being a dedicated war hammer (i.e. used in camp construction etc.)

also, on a wooden haft, it seems like such a heavy head would snap off pretty easily without reinforcing langets. ok, thx in advance!

[Ranika]

Actually, I can't really say how accurate they look, aside from shape. I've not actually seen them in game myself, and while I can get an idea from screens, it's kind of hard for me to get accurate perspective. They weren't that large of heads, but definitely larger than later battle hammers, because they were needed for construction. The recovery time WOULD be very slow though, and they would be dreadfully unwieldy. Lighter armed and armored soldiers would be greatly advantaged against them. In fact, pretty much anyone would be, except those who's main strength would lay in heavy armor and shields. I think some of the size may just be perspective, but without having tested them myself (my own PC is a bit on the fritz, been borrowing a laptop) and compared them with other weapons and the like in game, it's a bit tough to give definite answers.

[jerby]

im interested abotu teh dieing animation. how does one die of a hammer blow? where will the hammer hit the opponent?

[Ranika]

I don't quite understand how you mean, at the time, I believe it's using the two-handed axe animations, and I'm pretty sure everyone dies the same way regardless of the weapon they're struck with (with the exceptions of being thrown and burning, but even burning uses the same animation, I think). If you mean, simply, how does a hammer kill some one, being struck by what is essentially a sledgehammer, regardless of where, will almost surely remove you from the fight. If you die or not is of little relevancy, you WILL be incapable of fighting, and that's really all one needs to care about, is incapacitation. However, the weight of the head, and the velocity of the swing, if it struck you on the head, would utterly smash your skull, and if on the torso, would crush your bones inward, causing massive internal bleeding, or essentially explode some internal organs if it hits a soft spot. There is little chance of surviving a direct hit to the torso, and even if you did, you would surely collapse and be incapable of continuing to fight. If it struck a leg or arm, chances are it'd either break it, or tear it off your body if the angle and speed of the swing is right. You could potentially still fight with a broken limb, but it is unlikely most would. It would be nice if the animations could accomodate such gore, but I think some would complain, and I doubt it's possible anyway. Would be realistic though.

[Divinus Arma]

I think you answered my question. I didn't realize you working on the mod.

So they will be far smaller in unit size... you mention 16 or 20, this is with what unit size for the rest of the army? That 16 or 20 isn't small if one is playing on "small" unit size. The oposite would be true on "huge" setting.

[Ranika]

That would be the size entered into the files, and thereby adjusted depending upon the size of armies selected by a player.

[Legionario]

Nice ones,I see with much joy that you used part of my CAS for the cloak and that it's still...clipped (the texture) funny 'cause when i did that, I was criticized about the blurring of the cloak texture....
Well..times change...
And thanks for the showup you made at TWC,you managed to close my topic,
and now you do what you condemned...you stole parts of my work..very cool....