EB's reflection of archery

[cunctator]

Historically, siege engines were not used a lot on the field of battle in the period we describe. Dunno why, really. Perhaps they were just too difficult to transport? (Which could be reflected by lowering movement value even more.)

The only incident I can think of involving siege engines in a pitched battle would be Arrian's array against the Alans, which uses artillery pieces to help break up the enemy cavalry charge. But this took place way beyond EB's timeframe.

Artillery was mostly stationary especially the larger pieces. It was transported disasembled on mules for longer distances.
Reading Tacitus it looks like the romans used their artillery whenever it was possible but the low moblility limited that to stationary fighting. Like the forced crossing of river in Germannicus 15-16ad campaign. The only other pitched battle I know when artillery was used is the second battle near cremona in the 69ad civil war. There even stone throwers were used against the enemy formations like in RTW.

Tacitus Histories Book3 23
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/ta...History03.html

Later in arrians times the romans used carro balistae, bolt throwers on mule cars, as mobile field artillery.

[Randal]

Thanks, that explains quite a few things. I'll make sure to read some more Tacitus.

Anyway, (at the risk of going slightly off-topic) does that mean EB's artillery will be immobile? (and preferably not turnable, that ought to limit effectiveness) I was rather surprised when it turned out my onagers could be moved.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Am I totally wrong when I say I read in a book that roman legions around 100 AD used one ballista per centuria? It sounds strange - 60 per legion - but I thought I read that somewhere. If so, how were the ballistae employed in the line?

[jerby]

most artillery will be smaller than onagers. most will fire bolts, maybe one or two stone-chuckers but thats it (probably) so most artillery will be movable. else you could make artillery useless by positioning your men far away enough and they'll never get close enough

[cunctator]

Am I totally wrong when I say I read in a book that roman legions around 100 AD used one ballista per centuria? It sounds strange - 60 per legion - but I thought I read that somewhere. If so, how were the ballistae employed in the line?

Most of the legions artillery where bolt throwers.

I think Vegetius wrote that there was approx. one scorpion/bolt thrower per centuria and one stone thrower per cohort. But I don`t know about what period he is talking.

During the siege of Jotapata Vespasians 3 legion (+auxilia) army has had a total 160 artillery pieces. (Josephus Flavius, De Bello Judaico Book 3/7/9)

[Rodion Romanovich]

Most of the legions artillery where bolt throwers.

I think Vegetius wrote that there was approx. one scorpion/bolt thrower per centuria and one stone thrower per cohort. But I don`t know about what period he is talking.

During the siege of Jotapata Vespasians 3 legion (+auxilia) army has had a total 160 artillery pieces. (Josephus Flavius, De Bello Judaico Book 3/7/9)

Ok thanks. What I meant with ballistae where bolt throwers. I never seem to remember if it was ballista = bolt, catapult = stone or if it was ballista = stone, catapult = bolt that is the correct one. Usually half the sources claim the first alternative and the other half claims it's the other way around...

Anyway, the book I read was about the Dacian wars and it was quite old but it said the around 100 AD legion had 60 ballistae. As far as I know, it was a quite new discovery that ballista and catapult meant opposite to what people thought before, and it seems more realistic that 60 bolts and not 60 stone throwers were used by a legion so I assume that means that catapult really means bolt weapon and ballista means stone thrower ?

[jerby]

ballista is about the same as a scorpion.
ballista=scropion=BOLTS
onagers=catapult=STONES

however there were ancients stonethrowers with an ballista-like design. so they are named after the idea of firing and not after ammo.

ballista=sinews
onager=catapult like


i think

[Sarcasm]

2 types essentialy. One with 2 arms and one with just one arm. Both types use sinews.

One arm version is an onager.

There are 2 types of 2 arm siege weapons. The catapult is a bolt thrower and the balista is a stone thrower.

[Tricon]

"The catapult is a bolt thrower and the balista is a stone thrower."


Err.. , mmh. I thought it was the other way around. Could it be that a slight mix up occured?