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Thread: CA asks for Bug List - to be fixed in the expansion
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Myrddraal 19:21 04-16-2005
Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke:
But about the idea of a list of community issues, I think that's a fine idea. There might be some problems putting it together in that some people think, "oh, this is a huge problem" while other people are of the opposite opinion, but then you'll always get these things when lots of people try to work together ;) It will definitely help flag some areas for us that you guys have noticed as being either broken or not working as well as they could.
This is what Jerome Posted in this thread

So basically its down to us now.


This is how it will work.
You post bugs here, and they will be compiled into a concise list to give to CA. Thanks guys, we will soon be adding some of the bugs already mentioned.


Current Reported Bugs - IMPORTANT: please could someone read through these inform me of any mistakes or unproven bugs.
Note: Sometimes when it says me or I it is simply where I have copied the text of those who reported the bug.


AI bugs

General notes on AI (not specific bugs, these may be moved to issues):
Battlefield AI - an AI army will approach to attack in a line, but when it gets near to the player's force, it will break up, with units veering off in piecemeal attacks. This allows its individual units to be flanked and destroyed in detail. It is particularly disasterous when the AI is fielding phalanxes. The AI would do better to just try to march straight through the player's line in a frontal attack.
Campaign AI - the AI does not sufficiently concentrate its forces. Some simple code to make weak stacks keep out of range of stronger player's stacks (ultimately hiding out in a walled town if need be) would help a lot. Heroes of Might and Magic III had such AI behaviour and it made for a decently challenging game.
Strat map bugs



Battle bugs

Will continue to update this later...





















Issues: Note this list is very incomplete, I'm overwhelmed with issues, and I'm concentrating on the bugs for the time being.
These are not strictly speaking bugs, but things which we think are noteworth and should be considered in the expansion. CA can do with these as they like.


Myrddraal 19:58 04-16-2005
NOTE: this is not a place to discuss CA policies, this is a place to get on a post bugs, any unrelated posts will be deleted!

The_Mark 20:12 04-16-2005
This is excellent news, I hope that this will give us a base for a more prolonged developer-community interaction.

My share for this, something minor as most of the big stuff is already known. Grouping units affect unit speeds, e.g. infantry can be grouped with cavalry to get the infantry run (even) faster than usual. Some research here, topic gets switched from movement modifiers to group speed issue.: link

Quietus 20:25 04-16-2005
  1. Siege bug - I didn't do extensive tests on this so I leave the details to the ORG testers (It was first reported here but Tai4ji2x, but I’m not sure who discovered this first. Anyone?)
  2. Cavalry Movement Point bonus bug – Left-clicking on a cavalry unit "on-screen" and Left-clicking on the same cavalry unit on the "unit card" confers different movement point values (being higher on the latter).
  3. Grouped archers bug – Grouped archers don't fire where it is directed (first reported by hoom). They still obey individually.
  4. Red-zone bug (?) – The players' army units get stuck when they land on the enemy's red-zone no matter how much movement points they still have. Bug or Feature?
  5. Port Blockade Bug – Plain blockade doesn't stop the enemy from escaping (first reported by hoom)
  6. Ladder bugs – Occassions where the unit who drops the ladder during deployment precludes it from picking it up again. Also, ability to build ladder on huge/epic stone walls even though not usable during siege.
  7. Sallying Enemy bug – Killing all the sallying enemy's forces doesn't give automatic victory to player (reported by Oaty). I think Oaty was trapped outside.
  8. Endless Siege bug - Defending Enemy units that rout getting stuck in between tight alleys of buildings where they can't be reached by skirmishers.
  9. Bridge Routing bug – Bridge routing bug where the enemy unit routs to the player's side.
  10. Barbarian city Pathfinding bug – Units will SKIRT the closest route inside barbarian cities when there are no roadway/tracks presents. Instead they follow the roadway/tracks ( going around the city) even though the clicked destination only meant crossing between two buildings (with no tracks)


I'll add some more later.

player1 21:10 04-16-2005
This would be good place to post link to BUG-FIXER.
(while discussion thread is here)


This is some sort of unofficial patch which fixes some bugs (or oddities), that can be done by just modifing text files.
Word of warning, some of the fixes are just workarounds, since real fixes would need change in code.

Still, it's good to indentify some problems in RTW.

player1 21:20 04-16-2005
AI needs at least 3 turns to take city.
While human player can seige in first turn, and attack in 2nd, AI never does that, it attacks at 3rd turn earliest.

EDIT:
Still not in bug list.

Myrddraal 00:04 04-17-2005
I don't know if this is what you mean by the siege bug, but sometimes when the AI sallies, they just sit there. They don't actually sally at all. Has anyone else experienced this?

Spartiate 00:36 04-17-2005
Yes.I have experienced this and it's extremely annoying if you are sitting out-side the walls with no siege equipment unable to get into the city and the bloody AI army sits on the other side of the wall even though they are supposed to be sallying.

Bhruic 00:41 04-17-2005
That's why I won't play with the timer off.

One visual bug that can be nasty is the shoreline 'bug'. I posted a screenshot of an extreme version of it in this thread.

Bh

Simetrical 04:29 04-17-2005
In the trait files, you don't get a popup for gaining a trait if you gained it when you ended your turn, or at least I don't think you do. You do get popups if you gain a trait that gives them (e.g., Coward) during the course of your turn, but I've never seen such a popup at the very beginning of a turn. This could be tested more systematically, however.

When you have more than two rows of building options, as of 1.2, you can't always scroll down correctly.

When using the minimal UI, pressing the pause button once often causes the game to pause and then unpause in rapid succession, no matter how quickly you hit the button. Likewise, I think, for other buttons, but those mostly aren't toggles, so you just hear the sound multiple times at worst.

-Simetrical

barocca 11:43 04-17-2005
are my protectorates supposed to be capable of going to war with me?

tibilicus 11:52 04-17-2005
I dont think so i think that would go against the whole Protectorate rule. Has never hapend to me.

Kekvit Irae 15:57 04-17-2005
The Colisseum would be a great place to copy this thread to. Not many people look in the game mechanics sub forum

tibilicus 18:49 04-17-2005
Yep im only here once every 5 days. Also another bug is that if you sally out to attak your enemy and dont even kill that many of there men before the timer runs out the next turn the A.I just wonders off braking the seige. Its really annoying im at the point were I actually want the germens to take one of my cities !

Red Harvest 20:33 04-17-2005
Charge Effect I suggest the charge effect/charge bonus be added as a discussion item. There was a thread about this recently. It is not what I would call a bug, but it is a feature that when investigated leaves most of us scratching our heads and appears to be an area for improvement.. Short of it is that the charge bonus stat works, but doesn't seem to have a significant impact--negligible for "normal" stat levels. Instead charge kills seem to be more controlled by armour level of the charging unit and by base attack. Mass has some impact but again less than the armour level. And the very act of charging itself seems to have a rather large sort of fixed effect. It is not that charges are weak (most of us agree they are VERY powerful, especially with the very high overall kill rates). It is instead that the charge bonus has almost nothing to do with the power of a charge, while other things that shouldn't matter as much have a large impact.

Pila Animation Halting Chargers
Another one to add as an odd effect is that units raising their pila can stop a charge cold at times (quite frequently in 1vs1 tests), and then inflict heavy casualties on the chargers when they do release. It seems to be a timing issue, and it is very counterintuitive. When they are preparing to throw one would think they should be quite vulnerable to the shock of a charge. It might be intentional to make up for the difficulty of units being able to release their pila in time, but the fact that they are then causing heavy damage with the pila after taking the charge seems quite wrong/buggy. There could be quite a bit happening that we don't know about with this, the whole volley delay effect might be playing havoc here. It is worthy of scrutiny at least. Not sure if it ever happens for other missile units or when changing formation for any other types...could be a deeper glitch.

Red Harvest 20:38 04-17-2005
Ford Bug
Some ford maps don't work properly in battle. For instance: the ford south of the town at Carthago Nova. Many of us have found infantry utterly unable to cross this ford and others. The ford was in the location where a bridge would normally be (if roads had been built.) There were no other fords on the map. The AI attacked, but could not find a crossing. It took me 10 or 15 minutes of experimentation and exploring to figure out how to get my cavalry into a formation that would allow them to cross (long narrow column very near the ford and perfectly alligned with it.) I never could get infantry across.

Red Harvest 20:53 04-17-2005
Missile unit rank effect, no LOS, distance attenuation
A large departure between previous TW series games is in rank effects, non LOS shooting, and apparently distance attenuation. Archers can fire effectively from extremely deep formations in RTW. Additionally, units don't seem to pay a significant non-LOS penalty. Indirect fire (when screened behind one's lines, a wall, other ranks of the same unit, etc.) should have a substantial impact on accuracy of fire and therefore killing power. Also, what testing I've done suggests that missile attack (or accuracy) is not modified for distance. However, the collision code does apparently slightly reduce the number of impacts at distance because the individual soldier cross sections are smaller at distance due to firing angle.

Distance attenuation would reduce the effect of archery, without unfairly penalizing it.

Indirect fire/LOS penalties would encourage more historic use of skirmishers and archers: thin formations in front and at the flanks.

Red Harvest 21:02 04-17-2005
Hidden Unit Pathing Issue
This is probably a small bug rather than merely an issue, but it is a result of FOW. If the banner of an *unseen* army projects over the tile the player selects for movement, then the player's path detours toward the army, rather than the intended destination. This is most often seen when moving along a road. The player can't see the enemy army and is not selecting them or their tile, but the player's army goes that way regardless when the road destination is selected.

Suggestion: halt movement when new unit/agent is seen
One thing that is annoying is having one's armies or agents change course or try to march around the world because an unseen army or agent now blocks their path. The correct approach would have them proceed along the intended route until they can see that the blocking force, then halt. At that point their orders could be altered. (The AI should be allowed to benefit from this as well!) Another approach would be to have the unit halt and be allowed to re-evaluate each time a new unit is revealed.

Narayanese 21:31 04-17-2005
After installing patch 1.1 or patch 1.2 the game can no longer find the game CD, although CD I is in the drive, thus preventing me from running the game patched. I have this problem both when the install and the game is run from my DVD drive (D:) and when from my CD-burner (E:). The version istalled from the CD, unpatched, runs without such a problem.
I've seen in the forums a few other people with the same problem but never seen anyone post a solution.

tai4ji2x 21:45 04-17-2005
:sigh: i miss those days in STW, where i knew the optimal formation for archers was two-lines deep...

Originally Posted by Red Harvest:
Missile unit rank effect, no LOS, distance attenuation
A large departure between previous TW series games is in rank effects, non LOS shooting, and apparently distance attenuation. Archers can fire effectively from extremely deep formations in RTW. Additionally, units don't seem to pay a significant non-LOS penalty. Indirect fire (when screened behind one's lines, a wall, other ranks of the same unit, etc.) should have a substantial impact on accuracy of fire and therefore killing power. Also, what testing I've done suggests that missile attack (or accuracy) is not modified for distance. However, the collision code does apparently slightly reduce the number of impacts at distance because the individual soldier cross sections are smaller at distance due to firing angle.

Distance attenuation would reduce the effect of archery, without unfairly penalizing it.

Indirect fire/LOS penalties would encourage more historic use of skirmishers and archers: thin formations in front and at the flanks.


Kekvit Irae 22:31 04-17-2005
Pathfinding when entering city plazas
All units usually insist on entering the plazas in the middle of the square borders rather than a direct line inward. This screws up cavalry support, infantry charges, and phalanx formations.

Flaming Arrows
Flaming ammo from archers do not light up or damage buildings like it says they do in the manual.

Kraxis 00:39 04-18-2005
Possible bug:
Units do still at times Fight to the Death when routing on walls. Not a great situation if you happen to get beaten from the walls in an attack and have a a few men standing there you can't withdraw (with the timer off). You will suffer losses to units you have never sent into combat because you need to use the Esc button.

I second the effect of armour on the charge. It can't be right that Cataphract Archers are possibly the third best chargers (discluding eles and chariots) in the game.

Major balance issue:
Chariots apparently are overpowered in regards to autoresolve. That makes Egypt trounce the Seleucids easily (as if they didn't have an easy enough time) and more importantly makes the Britons kick the rear of the Guals and Germans with obvious ease.

There are plenty of inconsistencies in the stats, but I don't know if this is the place for it.

Myrddraal 09:31 04-18-2005
Maybe I should divide it into two sections, bugs and issues...

MajorFreak 10:26 04-18-2005
yes, please. Issues are just that. issues over a game that invariably involve "balance" issues...The fact is that chariots are devastatingly easy to win with even without using autocalc. (their ammo supply is awe-inspiring)As for bugs, i'd definitely have to mention the "load game" bug that makes replaying a really cool battle, where the AI attacks, impossible...and sadly this was the major reason i loved the earlier series.

screwtype 10:48 04-18-2005
1/ Nine times out of ten my skirmishing units do a great job of keeping out the way of enemy units. But now and again, they completely fail to get out of the way, or just barge right into the enemy. And it's not because they are trapped or have nowhere to escape. They just seem to forget to skirmish. It's very annoying.

2/ The pathfinding bug in cities is still extant. In my last siege battle for instance, I directed my missile cav to run away from an advancing phalanx, instead they charged straight INTO the phalanx. (Oh, and they had skirmish mode on too).

3/ I've had repeated problems getting missile units to actually throw their weapons. Three times in one battle the other night, for instance, I directed a peltast to fire at an enemy unit, three times I came back to find it still standing there, "Idle". It seems that the only way to reliably get missile units to fire is to put them on autofire. If you turn them off autofire and try to get them to fire at a particular unit, much of the time they won't do it. Or they will fire one volley and stop. So I just have to leave them mostly on autofire now.

4/ Still got the problem of grouped units not all following orders, or of some unit that is not part of the group following the group's orders instead.

5/ Occasionally when I've had my missile cav grouped and taken them off skirmish mode, they continue to behave as though skirmish mode is enabled and can't be used to charge enemy units. Taking them out of group seems to make them work properly again.

6/ When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking. Also, ordering a unit to disable phalanx formation when the game is paused only works about 50% of the time, ie half the time they will stay in phalanx formation.

7/ Problems with units ignoring orders generally.

Conqueror 10:53 04-18-2005
A note about the Port Blockade Bug: It is also possible for the player to enter one of his ports (that is being blockaded by a hostile AI fleet) with his fleet, without needing to fight the enemy.

ZZR Puig 11:01 04-18-2005
Probably this topic can help to list all bugs:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...opicID=5.topic

Kraxis 11:10 04-18-2005
I think the Blockade bug is not a bug. I think it was mentioned to be a feature sometime around the patch being released. And that is fair enough as the Carthies managed to run the gauntlet to Lilybaeum and Drapana to bring in supplies in the First Punic War.

Anyway, I can confirm the no-sally-survivor-yet-no-victory bug, as I have experienced it myself. In fact it happened right after the Fight-to-the-Death bug I mentioned earlier.

PseRamesses 11:33 04-18-2005
1: Fire at will command enables a unit to fire at an enemy that is not engaged with one of yours which is fine since it reduces friendly fire losses. The problem is that sometimes you do want to fire at an unit that is overpowering one of yours. Now, with a hastaii or principii unit they will throw two spears then charge. Put on guard command they should remain in their position and fire until ammo is depleted and not charge afterwards. Am I making sense?
2: Many units runs past their given deployment location and then back again to it. This causes units that are given a deployment close to a enemy unit to actually run into them and then try to return to their place.
3: Battelmaps needs fixing since there is a lot of screwed up coast lines. I can´t even remember when I played a battle last without the coast looking like a landfill area.
4: All the different CTD´s that people are experiencing. RTW needs to be more compatible with XP, nVidia and ATI cards etc. CA should really take a look at this and the save-game bug.

Thanks for listening and a truly epic game that has brought me countless hours of pure joy.

Magraev 12:19 04-18-2005
Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. I've found that the problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins?

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