CA asks for Bug List - to be fixed in the expansion

[Magraev]

Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. I've found that the problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins?

[Myrddraal]

1: Fire at will command enables a unit to fire at an enemy that is not engaged with one of yours which is fine since it reduces friendly fire losses. The problem is that sometimes you do want to fire at an unit that is overpowering one of yours. Now, with a hastaii or principii unit they will throw two spears then charge. Put on guard command they should remain in their position and fire until ammo is depleted and not charge afterwards. Am I making sense?

Um, not to me .

Could you explain again?

[Ahmose]

mybe it is not a bug .. but when I order alot of my troops to do movements while my general beeing chased by a chariot his horse halt and he do his imotion of raising his sword and then continue running but this result beeing cought alone with the deadly chariot and his boudygards away from him.
thx for all

[Myrddraal]

If the manual states otherwise its a bug. I'll add it.

I'll put the grouped unit speed on hold till I can find out more.


Has anyone else experience the difficulty level bug? Any research?

[Shambles]

If the manual states otherwise its a bug. I'll add it.

I'll put the grouped unit speed on hold till I can find out more.


Has anyone else experience the difficulty level bug? Any research?

In real life they would usualy put slow mooving Units at the front
Then they would force faster mooving units to slow down When grouped in formation,

I think that should be the case for the game as well,

Honestly a slow mooving unit should not be able to moove faster becous you grouped it with a faster mooving unit,
Id say its a bug or glitch.

[sunsmountain]

1. Make the AI programmable, like an export_descr_AI.txt !!!
2. See 1!!
3. Perhaps add a section in descr_strat.txt?
4. If you don't, total war fans will keep moaning for ever and ever.

5. No bugs found or reproduced except those found by player1-bugfixer thread. NONE.

Phalanx game mechanic problems
The pikes should be raised so that the points are high enough above the ground to be effective.

Well if they do they should tire more quickly than anything. Phalanx should not fight on a slope.

Battle difficulty bonus is being added to both human and AI

I agree it should only go to the AI, but make it a morale bonus like in medieval, NOT an attack or defense bonus.

@ oaty
Your list is way too long, could you please test your 'bugs' before you post them? This goes for the other long lists as well!

[screwtype]

1. Make the AI programmable, like an export_descr_AI.txt !!!
2. See 1!!
3. Perhaps add a section in descr_strat.txt?
4. If you don't, total war fans will keep moaning for ever and ever.

Nice idea. But would they have to compromise even further on AI complexity to do so?

someone: "Phalanx game mechanic problems
The pikes should be raised so that the points are high enough above the ground to be effective."

sunsmountain: "Well if they do they should tire more quickly than anything. Phalanx should not fight on a slope."

Actually the closer to vertical a pike is held, the less tired a phalangite should get. So I don't agree they should tire more quickly just because their pikes are at an angle to the horizontal - quite the contrary.

[Myrddraal]

The fact that Custom battles maps use the orignial campagin map to generate rather than the modded one.

I thought they used the base map...

[Myrddraal]

About the loadgame bug, isn't this enough

Loading bugs (all one bug?)

AI break siege- the AI will often break up sieges after loading a saved game
AI become protectorates - After loading a saved game, the AI seem very susceptible to diplomatic overtures such as the offering of protectorate status, ceasefires, alliances, etc.

[Torvald]

I've been diligently reading this thread before posting. I usually post on the .com forum, but am seriously thinking about a permament "move" to the .org just because the atmosphere seems so much nicer here. Anyways, just wanted to say that what you're doing in this thread is really productive, and for whatever it's worth, you have my full support.

Also, the issue I want to bring up was touched upon by sik1977 a couple of posts above. I am Mindblank, the original poster of one the .com link he provides. Again, here is the link:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=24041.topic

Game version is RTW 1.2 (i.e. vanilla, no downloaded mods, no personal mods or tweaks to any text files)

It is actually a twofold issue:

1) When capturing certain cities as part of a Senate mission (Sardis seems to be particularly prone to this, but other cities, including Corinth and Sidon have been known to cause this too), the Roman player gets outlawed for no logical reason. I say "no logical reason" because it apparently has nothing to do with prior Senate/Pleb popularity, number of regions controlled, etc.

2) After this premature outlawing, the Senate behaves irrationally: it outlaws the other Roman factions, hands out new missions to the already outlawed Roman player, etc.

For more details I recommend checking out the link I provided.

Also, I can provide a saved game to illustrate this problem.

[screwtype]

@ Myrddraal,

I previously stated:

"When you direct a unit to "run" when the game is paused, and then unpause the game, the unit immediately reverts to walking."

I was certain this was the case, but blow me down when I tried to replicate it last night it didn't happen!

However, I still believe it was happening before, and I still think there's something screwy about this feature, but I will have to look into it more before I confirm the nature of this bug.

[Red Harvest]

Myrddraal,

Please add the charge effects/charge bonus to the "issues" category. Those of us who have tested it agree that it doesn't work in a logical fashion. While it may be intentional, it doesn't work right and results in cataphract archers having more powerful charges than heavy lance armed units that were designed for charging.

The horse archer bug also afflicts chariot and elephant archer units. Also, the skirmish description for it is incorrect IIRC. The units fail to fire on the move, whether in skirmish or out of skirmish. They will fire once, then stop firing or go through th motions but fail to fire. Issuing a new set of orders will get them to fire once, then they get stuck again. As a result sometimes the AI can keep them firing this way since it continues modifying orders, but it is very challenging for a human.

Pila Animation Halting a Charge I would describe as a bug since its effect is very wierd and reverses what should happen. It should certainly make the issues list if it isn't on the bug list.

[Myrddraal]

K, I'm trying to stay on top of this. Any help from another mod would be appreciated...

[frogbeastegg]

The pause and speed altering hotkeys in battle are unreliable.
Many times when I tried to use them the effect would toggle twice, e.g. pausing and then instantly unpausing. It's not a case of holding the keys down too long; this happens even when the keys are only tapped lightly. The problem is not constant; about half the time the hotkeys do work as expected. The interface shortcuts work correctly, but in the minimal UI those buttons are missing. This isn't a frame rate relayed issue either; it happens in both large and small battles.

There was a thread about this a few months back; no solution was found.

[screwtype]

The pause and speed altering hotkeys in battle are unreliable.
Many times when I tried to use them the effect would toggle twice, e.g. pausing and then instantly unpausing. It's not a case of holding the keys down too long; this happens even when the keys are only tapped lightly. The problem is not constant; about half the time the hotkeys do work as expected. The interface shortcuts work correctly, but in the minimal UI those buttons are missing. This isn't a frame rate relayed issue either; it happens in both large and small battles.

I wouldn't go along with your exact description of the problem but the game's response to pause button keypress when on high speed is definitely random. That is one reason I would never use the minimal AI.

[frogbeastegg]

I wouldn't go along with your exact description of the problem but the game's response to pause button keypress when on high speed is definitely random. That is one reason I would never use the minimal AI.

In my experience the problem also happens when the game speed is normal, not just when the speed has been turned up to maximum. I had the same difficulty pausing and/or speeding the game up that I did slowing it back down.

[Marcus Maxentius]

I've had two instances of my general freezing and getting slaughtered by other troops. It says he's marching, but he aint marching as far as I can tell. I keep double-clicking and nothing happens. He just stands there looking around. I think he's high or something.

Another thing with generals. I charged my greek general unit into the back of a carthaginian general and did zero damage. Infact his movement was stopped like he hit a stone wall. The other general turned around and killed mine. I guess some leaders are born with an iron ass or something.

[Marcus Maxentius]

Aw crap, I forgot I'm using 1.1. I don't want to waste space with something already fixed. Can anybody confirm, please?

[Simetrical]

I suggest two things:

1) Every single bug needs to either include a save that displays it clearly, or a method that shows it clearly. This is critical. It's not enough to say "it's been tested," you have to specify what the test is so CA can see for itself. There's no point otherwise.

2) Only the most egregious, consistent, and specific AI flaws (e.g., "loading a saved game severely inhibits AI aggressiveness in the first turn after the load") should be mentioned. AI is immensely complex, and you can't fix a problem like "the AI doesn't attack when its forces are clearly superior" the way you can fix a UI problem or an animation problem or whatever. There's no point in including fundamental AI inadequacies here—of course they know that the AI isn't top-notch. We don't need to tell them that.

-Simetrical

[Dead Moroz]

Sabotaging doesn't give experience to Assaisns.

I looked VnV code and I saw that Conspirator like of traits is triggered after sabotage.
But, since Consipirator is reserved for spies only, assasins won't get any benefit from it.

No doubt this is bug! Spies just cannot do sabotage missions. The real character type for this trait must be assassin instead of spy.

[Barbarossa82]

Marian Reforms Bugs

1. Praetorian Guard are trainable before the Marian Reforms take place. This occurs because they are trainable at the Imperial Palace, which no longer immediately triggers the Marian Reforms event. The effect is to improperly give the Romans access to a legionary-style unit before the reforms.

2. Pontic and Scythian generals are not upgraded to their armoured model. This is apparently due to a missing "general upgrade" attribute.


Marian Reforms Issue, Possible Bug

After Patch 1.2, non-Roman factions are completely dependent on the progress of the Roman factions for the upgrade of their generals, rather than being able to effect this themselves by building their highest level governor's building.

[Oaty]

Sallying Enemy bug I – Killing all the sallying enemy's forces doesn't give automatic victory to player (reported by Oaty). I think Oaty was trapped outside.

I believe that's a misinterpretation if I remember correctly. The A.I. might possibly have unlimited sallies on last turn at least 2 for sure, could be the human has multiple sallies on last turn too and noones noticed. They sallied twice on the last turn to be starved out. First turn they sallied grouped up outside the walls, did not engage timer ran out. Returned to the campaign map expecting the occupy/enslave/exterminate message. Instead the A.I. sallies again, at least this time they grouped up and attacked. This time I had either taken the town square or decimated thier army to 10 percent of it's original size. Forget wich but this time it allowed me to have the city even though I should have had it on the first unsuccesful sally. Part of this problem might have been the A.I. had trouble coping that I was deployed on a side that had no gate on that wall.

BUGS

The A.I. can do multiple sallies or at least 2 when it is the turn they starve to submission/death.

CTD very easy to reproduce When the A.I. sallies and you drop your ladders (the 15 build point ones). With the ladders on the ground select some unit(s) and go to string them across in a line. When you do this if the mouse cursor has a palm and you go to string them out you get a CTD every single time. In the heat of battle this can be annoying.


Exploits

Siege towers/rams create an obstacle course or great flank protection. The second exploit is the unit with a siege tower/ladder has it already equipped and if it is far from the gatehouse can quickly march forward take the wall and automatically forces the A.I. call off it's sally. I feel that on a sally siege equipment should be deployed behind your lines unequipped as siege equipment was usually very well protected. Plus this allows the A.I. some time to prevent you from taking the walls.

A.I. attacking across bridges. I'd prefer the A.I. park there army next to mine instead of attacking and wasting a full stack unless the odds are about 5 to 1 in thier favour.

Expendable units. too often I route wardogs befor they have a chance. A.I. should release them right away with a proximity trigger.

Issues

A.I. assaulting towns many issues here.

First is an all cavalry army trying to assault.. The A.I. did have 1 unit of archers on a battering ram that was quickly destroyed by the gatehouse. So I'm not sure if they would not have tried an assault if the 1 foot unit was'nt there.

Second Rams are nearly worthless on stonewalls with less than a ~ 10 percent chance of success. But the A.I. still makes an attempt with them

Third breach in the wall/ spy opens gates. The A.I. bumrushes that breach allowing a potential massacre of thier army with a small garrison.

Fourth A.I. does'nt seem to use all thier build points, quite often I see a stack of 20 units Wich usually equates to 250-300 build points for me and when I am assaulted I do'nt think I ever see more than 200 worth of build points used. Also A.I. building sap points on wooden walls.

Fifth the A.I. does'nt do a good calculation of siege equipment to garrison ratio. 20 units VS 10 should maybe have the A.I build for 2 turns instead of aggresively assaulting as soon as it has siege equipment.

Sixth when the odds are overwhelming such as 20 units to 2 the A.I should send in waves instead of exhausting there whole army.

Seventh the bumrush all together. The A.I. should agrressively try to take the breaches, after that though I think the A.I would be better suited in taking the town center in more of a column style and NOT overlapping units. Along with this not engaging more than 2 units per path but to have a unit waiting close behind.

Eigth Generals might have a chance on the battlefield but is near nada when sending them in first on an assault.

Ninth routing units at the gate. Half there army is inside and routing, the other half is outside and trying to get in.

Tenth Automatically on deployment skirmishing should be turned off by default as skirmishing works very poorly in cities and in reality makes sense. The A.I. has too many problems with this.

Eleventh defending missile units, they are perfectly in good range of my units fire 1-3 rounds then dance around all in the meanwhile allow my archers to take them down to nothing. If my archers can hit them that means they can return the favour if they are matched in range ability. So stop A.I. archers from moving if they are in range of something. Same should go for assaulting

Twelfth does'nt occur too often but the overshoot feature should be disabled in city battles. Do'nt know if it's the overshoot feature or pathing causing this but units will run way way past thier destination then come back and line up.

Thirteenth ability to move sap points on the deployment stage, unless I'm doing something wrong. Because Marcus(advisor) says I can move them.

Battlefield archers same as towns stop the A.I. from dancing archers if there is an enemy in range unless of course it is the skirmishing feature causing this.

Battlefield, the A.I. does'nt do a good asessment of when you can shoot them to death.

Trapped skirmishing unit, Example Roman cavalry auxilia get chased to the redline. I hit withdraw, instead of running across the line they were chased to they try to withdraw the direction the army came from. Cavalry at least should be able to withdraw across the line that is closest to them.

Skirmishers in general I micromanage them so that they are no longer in between the redline and an enemy but for some odd reason if they are close to the redline they try to run around the enemy getting themselves pinned again.

I do'nt mind the horse archers being nerfed but the fact that they are pinned in by redlines makes this toning down a bit harsh

All cavlry armies/cavalry scouts. They should always have the withdraw option unless also opposed by an all cavlry army.

Also the no withdraw option should only be enabled for the first 5 to 10 minutes. Or at least units that have been routed then rallied should be able to withdraw.

A.I. not retraining fleets, also ships should try to retreat to the nearest friendly unblockaded port.

Campaign armies. A.I. does'nt make good choices when you play as an eastern faction. Boring battles when the A.I. attacks you with an all infantry army minus up to a few units of cavalry.

Cavalry needs a population/control method.

A.I. not milking any cities/towns to allow population increase. It should at least try to milk some cities that are'nt on a threatened border.

Capitals can be bribed at least the A.I. can bribe them.

Also the A.I. bribes towns well out of thier reach such as Briton bribing Croton or Julii bribing Condate Redundem that's taking in the fact that the Julii are still maintained to the Italian peninsula. Perhaps bribed cities should be limited to borders or distance to friendly territory. Islands can/should be excluded

A.I. emisary has a mission to bribe a city before it is under siege. The A.I. somehow bribes the city when it gets besieged.

A.I. Phalanxes trying to squeeze in between 2 units to get at there flanks. A.I. phlanxes need to concentrate on what's in front of them after that if there is nothing in front of them work on a flank of a unit

A.I. rarely uses reserves wich allows easy breakthrough in it's lines.

Multiple basic A.I. tactics such as engaging the center withdrawing cavalry on 1 flank and moving it to the other and try to roll down. Also perhaps make a record of succesful/unsuccessful plans making it more likely to use one it is more successful with.

A.I. needs to concentrate less on trying to hit the flank of every single unit and try to maintain a line of cohesion for at least a portion of it's line.

Cavalry is too often seen in the opening phase especially in the center where cavalry is usually most thretaned

Less predictability too often well protected skirmishers get charged right away, allowing me to quickly destroy there strongest part of there army there cavalry

A.I. needs to stop moving thier infantry and rely on thier cavlry/reserves for adjustments, currently the A.I. is left with too many gaps wich cause them to loose thier center quite early too often.

A.I. does not change depth of unit according to the unit sizes you selected wich leads to a very thin A.I. line up to 4 times as long as mine on huge settings. Leads to an easy breakthrough on the A.I. line and to work out on them.

Advance and engage, allows units you select to march forward and only attack what's in front of them.

Deployment phase 1.1 showed an x where the enemy was approximately deployed. 1.2 this feature was taken out. I like that feature,

the main reason I liked was that it allowed you to deploy your army parallel to thiers. Now when I hit start battle if the lines are'nt paralel to each other I occasionally get the A.I. dancing around due to my moves when all I'm trying to do is to match my line paralel to thiers before I march on them.

Just my short little list


Side note: fighting to the death workaround. If they are stuck on the wall and you can clear enemy troops close by, you can then walk a unit up on the wall, they then they quit panicking allowing you to get them off. However if there are enemy troops down below you may or may not stop them from paniking by walking a unit by. So it does work to a degree.

[PseRamesses]

Sometimes a group of units ordered to attack an enemy unit (double-click) will behave as if ordered to run to that location. I've found that the problem can be solved by choosing the individual unit cards and then ordering the attack, so I don't know the reason. I suspect the trouble is from groups created before the battle begins?

Well, I always group and place my units before the battle so I wouldn´t know but I will try it. I defenitely know that this occurs when you order a group of units to a certain location so there defenitely must be a bug.

[buujin]

The CHARGE BONUS issue MUST BE ADDRESSED ,

FOR THE SAKE OF ALL FUTURE MODDING !!!

"Charge Bonus" has NEGLIGIBLE effect in battle
The Damage caused on charge impact is largely effected by "ATTACK SKILL" and "ARMOUR VALUE".

This is a SERIOUS problem in the battle mechanics which hinders unit stats balancing almost FATALLY.

The EFFECT of this bug/issue is:

-One can NOT make a unit vunerable to normal ( non- armour piercing ) weapons or missile fire, and still keep the charge inpact high.
-One can NOT reduce the overall kill/death rate of a unit while still keeping the charge bonus of that unit high.

This causes a whole array of further stats issues which i wont mention.

In short :
Having to use ATTACK SKILL and ARMOUR RATING as methods of balancing charge bonus puts HUGE flaws into all unit balance processes AND IS ALSO AN ODVIOUS REASON FOR ANY CURRENT INBALANCES IN VANILLA RTW's STATS

[Ginger]

i can also confirm that coastal battles often have large, square areas of land projecting into the sea in vanilla rtw, often when you can see your ships in the distance after disembarking.

[Daveybaby]

*cough* reload AI siege lifting bug *cough*

Also, an issue (or is it a feature request):
When clicking the prev/next buttons when on the cities tab, prev next city is selected. When clicking prev/next buttons when on the armies tab, the prev/next army is selected. But when clicking the prev/next buttons when on the agents tab, the game selects the prev/next agent *OR ARMY*

So can we have it so that we can just scroll through agents only please? Sometimes its hard to remember where you left that spy - was he in an army, a city, or just in a remote corner of the map?

[slackker]

*cough* reload AI siege lifting bug *cough*

Also, an issue (or is it a feature request):
When clicking the prev/next buttons when on the cities tab, prev next city is selected. When clicking prev/next buttons when on the armies tab, the prev/next army is selected. But when clicking the prev/next buttons when on the agents tab, the game selects the prev/next agent *OR ARMY*

So can we have it so that we can just scroll through agents only please? Sometimes its hard to remember where you left that spy - was he in an army, a city, or just in a remote corner of the map?

ahem OT but i had to reply :) if u right click on the town,army, agent, fleet tabs at the bottom middle of ur screen(juz above the unit icons) it will display all ur army stacks, agents and ships respectively Locations all provided, juz double click on the unit and u r there! and the description pops up too.

Cheers

[HarunTaiwan]

Definitely the "issue" where you cannot demand the city that you are currently beseiging should be a problem.

Why else am I besieging unless I want it?

I guess I should besiege a different city in order to get the one I want?

[Dead Moroz]

To illustrate some of my descriptions.

When your city get upgraded it may be covered by FOW. Though you still can access this city.



That's what happens when you fight with enemies climbing on ladders:



Also another graphical bug happens sometimes with other people too:

[SpencerH]

To illustrate some of my descriptions.

When your city get upgraded it may be covered by FOW. Though you still can access this city.


That's what happens when you fight with enemies climbing on ladders:


Also another graphical bug happens sometimes with other people too

I may be wrong but CA have shown no interest in bugs that occur in mods.