Top ten of games

[therother]

Probably forgotten some classics, but off the top of my head:

1. Super Twintris
2. Zolyx
3. STW
4. Civilization
5. MTW
6. Frontier: Elite 2
7. Sim City
8. GTA: Vice City
9. Monkey Island
10. Sensible World of Soccer

[ichi]

STW (includes WE)
MTW (includes VI)
GTA III (PS2)
Gran Turismo III (PS2)
Deus Ex
IL-2 Sturmovik (Aces & PF)
CIV CTP I
Galaxian (Arcade)
Duke Nukem (the whole series)
Call of Duty (whole series)


ichi

ps Notice the relative absence of Rome on the lists?

[Kraellin]

kek,

you played air warrior? cool :) is it still up on the web? how bout aw III; is it still up also? i loved that game and got quite good at it. bombers were fun to fly. that lumbering b-17 flying at 20,000 was incredible. in our heyday, we'd load that thing up with people at the gun and pilot and bomber positions and have a ball. that game was way ahead of its time.

i once visited the kesmai offices and got to know john and kelton. good guys and great programmers.

K.

[screwtype]

Lords of the Realm II had an interesting campaign system, which in my eyes total war borrowed heavily from, but the battles were a complete mess.

I initially played Lords of the Realm II on my Amiga and loved it. When I finally switched to PC I eventually bought the PC version of the game because I missed playing it.

The graphics on the PC version are really terrible, and all the different "worlds" are very samey, no really big campaigns, just a handful of provinces in each. The method of moving workers from one job to another, by "lassooing" them with the mouse, is really clumsy and irritating (the Amiga version just has sliders).

The play balance was inferior for all sorts of reasons, for example the frequency with which trade wagons and mercenaries appear. In the Amiga version, the trade wagons might only come around once every couple of years, so you'd really be hanging out for one so you could sell all that wool you'd accumulated and get the vital cash. Other times the wagon that finally turned up might lack that one essential item you really needed. This tension is really lacking in the PC version, where another wagon carrying exactly the same stuff comes virtually every turn.

Likewise, in the Amiga version, mercenaries only appeared occasionally, and only in port provinces, making them especially valuable provinces to conquer.

And I agree with you that the combat in the PC version was pretty stuffed. You have little control over your units, and there isn't a whole lot of difference between the performance of one type of unit and another. Peasants are almost as good as any other unit. It's just a chaotic game of raw numbers really.

In the Amiga version, it might cost you 2000 gold to buy enough swords for 100 swordsmen, but those 100 swordsmen really made a difference. They could cut their way through 1000+ peasants if you put them in a "backs to the wall" position. Better trained units also maintained a formation. Also morale came into it, at a certain point your troops' morale or the enemy's might collapse and the survivors flee. The more expensive the unit, the higher its morale. None of this is extant in the PC version.

The combat system in the Amiga version, while much simpler than a game like RTW, was actually quite fun and very well balanced. The same cannot be said for the PC version.

Darn I miss that game. I wish they would do an updated version of it.

[Al Khalifah]

Darn I miss that game. I wish they would do an updated version of it.

I believe they realeased a special Siege Pack expansion for II which let you play on some 'historically accurate' castles and added quite a few additional features that aren't present in the original.
It also improved the AI a whole lot, especially for the siege battles. If my memory serves me correct it also added a map editor, more maps, a custom battle mode, more castle designs, more diplomatic options and random events.

The more I think about it, the more I realise that Shogun does take a lot from Lords of the Realm II. Medieval even more so with merc recruitment and the sieges. The major quantum leep is in terms of the real-time battles on 3D terrain.
LOTR2 actually had some features that wouldn't be implemented into the TW cycle until R:TW. The ability to construct siege engines on-sight at a siege was new in Rome but present in LOTR2, as is the ability to raise your opponents terrain to reduce his income. In fact, the campaign map troop movement is pretty much the same, they both allow you to move your armies where you please except up mountains, giving movement bonsuses when you are on the road and if you attack the opponents settlement/castle then a siege begins.

All lovers of the Total War series, pay homage to the games that started it all... LORDS OF THE REALM and LORDS OF THE REALM II

[frogbeastegg]

Perfect Dark

I found Goldeneye to be overrated and somehow never really liked it, but PD I loved. Perhaps it was the storyline, or the increased stealth, or the adorable Falcon II with silencer, or maybe just Joanna Dark's (and the game's) sense of humour. I still remember Carrington complaining and telling his prime agent to behave when he caught her skulking about the offices in a crouch. Or his grumbling when you shot out all the wine bottles in his cellar.

It was a classy game; great graphics, plenty of well done speech, nicely done difficulty levels, good level design, tension, humour, bits that set your heart racing, excellent controls, good story, good characterisation, and (trivial, but it impressed this frog) an anatomically correct female lead character who wore (gasp!) actual clothes instead of fetish gear!

Any game which allows you to run about in a posh evening dress stealthily shooting people with a silenced pistol has a certain undeniable flare.

[Al Khalifah]

My problem with Perfect Dark was that it got a bit silly at times. The Skeddar were cool but those annoying little Maian things, who are called 'Elvis' were a bit much. I found I enjoyed the game less as it went on, as the mission settings become more and more outrageous and the enemies went from interesting to tedious. The Farsight X-20 was an awesome gun but it made the Challenge Missions too easy and it could ruin multiplayer missions on some maps. The Challenge Missions were also really let down by the glitch that let you customise them, so the final challenge could be YOU vs 1 MEAT BOT.

The Datathief multiplayer level was excellent and gave you really cool teamplay, whether it was 2 v 2 or 4 v computer. Co-op mode was cool too, but the slow down was horrible when you played some of the larger missions. The start of the Carrington Villa mission where you have to use the sniper rifle makes the game grind to a hault (and this is with the expansion drive).

Did anyone actually play this game without the expansion drive?

[frogbeastegg]

I had the expansion pack; I got it for ... rogue leader, I think. I didn't have any problems with the start of the villa mission (one of my favourites), but I did experience slowdown later on in the game, usually when things got busy or explosives appeared.

At first I was a bit annoyed the game took such a different turn, but then I began to enjoy what that turn introduced. Elvis was funny, some of those last missions were really impressive (being rescued from a Skedar ship by a bunch of greys who fought alongside you), others really creepy (that underwater one) or tense (the medical base). I hated the last normal mission though, the Skedar homeworld. I died so many times right at the beginning of that level I thought I would go quite mad. I nearly gave up out of sheer frustration. Then I suddenly hit my stride and tore through the level without a problem. I never did like that level though; I seldom replayed it.

All the same I would have preferred to face humans than Skedar, and I always preferred conventional weaponry over the freaky alien versions. Give me my silenced Falcon II any day.

I never played MP, and I found most of the challenge missions a bit dull, so I never finished them. Equally the weapons training missions were dull and so went mostly ignored.

I didn't like the farsight; it was an interesting idea, but the scope moved too slowly for my tastes, and it felt like cheating. I prefered to sneak about with my silenced pistol.

No one lives forever 1 and 2 are the only FPS games I've enjoyed as much as PD. I've never been a FPS fan; even like the fabled Halflife did not find any favour with me, though I did play it a few years after its release when it was bound to be less impressive.

[SwordsMaster]

even like the fabled Halflife did not find any favour with me, though I did play it a few years after its release when it was bound to be less impressive.

Same here. I have to say I enjoyed some WWII shooters and wonder why there isnt any WWI decent games yet....

[Kekvit Irae]

kek,

you played air warrior? cool :) is it still up on the web? how bout aw III; is it still up also?

No clue. I stopped playing many years ago from frustration over my lack of skill

[Al Khalifah]

Same here. I have to say I enjoyed some WWII shooters and wonder why there isnt any WWI decent games yet....

A WWI shooter would be a bit short on potential. The player character mantles a trench and charges into machine gun fire. If the player is lucky he won't get shot too badly, snagged in barbed wire, blown up by a land mine, struck by shrapnel or by artillery (friendly or enemy). The player then has to shoot entrenched enemy soldiers from very close range, because stopping in no-mans land will mean certain death. Repeat ad-infinitum. If the player makes it through the war/game without having to reload once, hes one of the luckiest men alive.

Plus, games developers aren't going to put ourselves in a situation where we get bombed with complaints from relatives and censors about the content of our games. A developer friend of mine said his company recieved numerous complaints about a war based FPS they produced because the relatives and veterans claimed it was too non-violent! They said this produced a glorified version of the truth and the war itself and that the way violence was shown in the game would warp peoples perception of its consequences. At the same time, the censors are still willing to slam the door on any game they percieve as being excessively violent. WWI was the most violent and vicious war in history and isn't really the sort of thing that makes a good video game. Video games are meant to be fun, there is little that could make a fun game concept in WWI without being grossly historically innacurate unless it was a flight combat game.

[SwordsMaster]

Well, yeah, but most of the people who fought on WWI and could complain about it are all dead, so I dont think that is the problem. IMO WWII has eclipsed WWI, specially seeing as the US participation in WWI was much less than in WWII and many developer companies are american.

But there isnt even a Close Combat style game setup in the WWI era, and besides the trench warfare thing wasnt present on all fronts at all times...

[Duke Malcolm]

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. MTW
3. Counter-Strike (never played Half-Life 2...)
4. MOHAA
5. STW
6. Final Fantasy IX
7. Baldur's Gate
8. Halo 2
9. Command & Conquer Generals
10. Dynasty Warriors (stuck between 3 and 4, though...)

[Butcher]

Top ten games eh?
Well I don't know about numbering them one to ten, or even ten, but some games I have found supreme have to be:

-MTW VI (of course): no explanation needed here!

-Call of Duty: Great cinematics and audio, truly astonishing experience on some levels that can be truly frightening.

-Resident Evil 2: The gretaest survival story ever; fantastic graphics (for it's time), excellent replayability (4 different ways of playing it!), truly marvellous plot and the only game I actually had to keep the lights on for.

-Operation Flashpoint: Excellent game due to it's environment and modability. Sure the squad control could be a bit awkward but once you grasped it it was manageable. Plus one of the first FPS games that had the 'one hit and your basically dead' attitude to it.

-Streets of Rage 2: I got this the day it came out, and still play it on my emulator now. Excellent mindless fun, great SFX and music, and still one of the best 2P games around.

-Civilisation: The game that got me into strategy games, Classic case of gameplay over graphics!

-Max Payne: OK, you could only play it once, but it was great entertainment for that one time.

-Total Annihalation: The original and best RTS. Never beaten in my mind.

Might add more if I think of any.

[Templar Knight]

not in any order:

Anno 1602
Operation Flashpoint
Victoria: an empire under the sun
Cossacks Series
Wargamer: Napoleon 1813
Total War series
Pirates of the Caribbean
Age of Empires 1 and 2
Europa Universalis 1 and 2
Cuttroats

[Chimpyang]

No real order really but here goes:
Call of Duty
Homeworld
GP4
Giants : Citizen Kabuto
Warrior Kings
UT 2004
Need for Speed 3 - This got me hooked to racing games for a while
Dungeon Siege
Medieval Total War :VI
Theif II

[screwtype]

Dunno about a top ten, I've played so many games I tend to forget what I've played, but here are some that come to mind which I got heaps of enjoyment from (in no particular order):

1. Hack - public domain game (Amiga) - the graphic version of the game (not the text version). This is the game that caused me to go out and buy a computer. I played it for months on end, obsessively, compulsively, until finally I realized the damn thing had a bug that caused it to crash at the deepest dungeon levels. Never did get to beat it, but for depth, immersion and challenge it was up there with the best. And it was totally free! Later versions of the game were ruined by features like the Keystone Kops which made it too easy.

2. Larn. Another Amiga PD game, much like Hack but with sexier graphics. Not quite as much fun as Hack but pretty good all the same. I beat this one multiple times, eventually giving up at difficulty level 6.

3. And while we're on PD games, there was Wizzy's Quest (Amiga), a sort of Lemmings type game (before Lemmings was thought of) only better. The levels were exquisitely well designed and you could only save every five levels, which made the game incredibly compulsive. And all written in BASIC by some guy in his bedroom!

4. Speedball II (Amiga). Great fun brutal sports game for one or two players.

5. Cannon Fodder I and II (Amiga). Not usually a fan of arcade games but this one was a beaut, you really had to get your tactics and strategy right *as well* as your trigger finger and timing. Played CF II right to the end, CF I unfortunately had a bug which prevented me from playing beyond about the 12th level.

6. Dungeon Master (Amiga). Not quite the first dungeon game (the execrable Bard's Tale series probably took that honour) but took the genre to new levels of excellence with high res graphics, hard but logical puzzles, locational sound effects and great atmospherics and attention to detail. Still fun to fire up and play even though it's not true 360 degree 3D.

7. Lords of the Realm II (Amiga). Much better than the PC version, which itself is something of a legend. But for a couple of very minor features (the really silly autocalc results, and the fact that autocalc is used between two human factions instead of allowing one the initiative) I might still be playing it in preference to the TW series.

8. Silent Service II (Amiga). The graphics were pretty basic but there was heaps of gameplay in this one, and quite a bit of historical flavour as well. I'd LOVE to see an updated version of this game, where is it?

9. STW (PC). The battle engine is smoother and faster than MTW and the atmospherics are better. Really miss my warrior monks! A little more detail in the campaign system and some tougher difficulty levels and you'd almost never grow tired of playing it.

10. Gee I'm not sure what to put in this slot. Maybe I'll go for Accolade's Elvira II (Amiga) , just for the haunted house section. The gruesome graphics are so cool and funny.

Come to the end but I'm sure there must be at least half a dozen brilliant titles I've totally forgotten

[Fragony]

Same here. I have to say I enjoyed some WWII shooters and wonder why there isnt any WWI decent games yet....

Half-life is probably the most overated game ever. Not that it's bad or anything but what makes it so special is beyond me. The first hour is cool but after that meh. NOLF should be the one with the reputation, now that was innovative.

[dessa14]

the reason half life is so great, is because mods like counterstrike made it playable for about four years.
thanks,
dizzy

[GoreBag]

8. Silent Service II (Amiga). The graphics were pretty basic but there was heaps of gameplay in this one, and quite a bit of historical flavour as well. I'd LOVE to see an updated version of this game, where is it?

I don't know about an updated version, but I remember the original Silent Service well. It was the only video game I could play with my father, naval buff that he is.

[Kekvit Irae]

8. Silent Service II (Amiga). The graphics were pretty basic but there was heaps of gameplay in this one, and quite a bit of historical flavour as well. I'd LOVE to see an updated version of this game, where is it?

Walmart, in the bargain bin. At least, Silent Hunter II for the PC. The new SHIII just came out as well
http://www.silenthunterii.com/

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm going to mix console games (well, two of them) with PC games.

1) MTW: VI
It changed my perception of videogames, I think. Certainly the strategy genre. It also got me here! Spent hours and hours on that game. I can still take it out and play it some more. Also, there are several quality mods out there for it. VI is a necessary component of this, as it made the game much better. Without VI, MTW might not make the top berth. Close though.

2) Close Combat II
A brilliant RTS game without the stupid resource gathering like star craft and co. The soldiers were real people in that game, an effect I really like. They aren't identical, mindless idiots for you to control godlike-ly. Nope. If you lost a whole bunch of guys in a battle, you were actually moved by it. I was, anyway. Note: I haven't played any other Close Combat games beyond demos. I may get III someday, though. I hear it is good (maybe even better than II).

3) Sid Meier's Gettysburg!
Another brilliant RTS game, with some parallels to CC2. I loved the whole Civil War setting, videos of reanactments, the little things like being able to play bugle calls. And this is not to mention the wonderful game - very challenging (the AI can be wicked, and I was very poor). Sadly, I lost the original CD, and the Sid Meier's Civil War Collection (Gettysburg + Anteitem) doesn't work on my computer.

4) Tie Fighter/X-wing
The two similar games are from one of my favorite game companies, Lucasarsts, owned by one of my favorite movie franchise, Star Wars. Tie fighter was my first computer game love, and indeed took many months of my 9-year-old life from me. I may get it again some day - on CD instead of floppy disks! I have X-wing, which wasn't as good as Tie, I think, but is still excellent. Note: I despise the X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter game. The stupid turning rules where more speed = slower turning!?! Bleh.

5) Star Fox 64
The greatest console game ever. Corny dialogue, fun, mindless action, wonderful. It needs a sequal that does it justice.

6) Rogue Squadron III
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm such a hypocrit for not playing the first two. But III is still very good, #2 for my Gamecube. Beautiful graphics, the mindless-ness of Star Fox + Star Wars of Tie fighter. III gives you co-op missions as well as single player, and my brother and I beat all but the very last mission together (it's his fault, you know )

7) Star Craft
I may be branded for heresy, but I have to credit where it is due (for me at least). Star Craft was fun, though repetitive and mindless. The campaign was pretty neat, at least the story. The cutscenes between certain levels were the greatest. And the dialogue, particularly the Terrans, was awesome. Just keep clicking the Tank Driver to here him say funny stuff.

8) Rome: Total War
It is with a heavy heart that I put this game at #8. I wish it could have been #1. But it ain't. I am hoping for mods to bring this higher, like Europa Barbarorum, anything made by Duke John, and a few others. RTW: potential wasted.

9) America's Army
Surprisingly enjoyable tactical shooter, though I've lost interest. Amazingly it plays well and looks gorgeous on my mediocre laptop. Hopefully there will be sequals with new weapons, like the XM-8 and XM-29 (two experimental weapons for the US Army that look really cool).

10) Age of Empires II: Age of Kings
One of my favorite games many moons ago, before I graduated to MTW. Fun, though eventually repetitive. The campaigns were good, and challenging. Random maps were less fun. Never got the expansion. Favorite faction: Teutons (those Germans with the Teutonic Knights).

Others
These I don't have the full version of but might in the future, or I didn't include for other reasons.

Halo/Halo2 - I lack an Xbox, and it isn't worth it to play Halo I on my laptop with the graphics as low as they can possibly be. Also, it will be interesting convincing that "Mature" means "makes players more mature."

Marathon - I've managed to track down Windows versions for this game, that I only heard about through Halo. Looks kinda cool, and hey, no slowdowns. Since it was made in like 1994.

Call of Duty
Looks very fun, need better computer. Have played demo.

[Red Harvest]

Lords of the Realm II had an interesting campaign system, which in my eyes total war borrowed heavily from, but the battles were a complete mess.

They certainly weren't as pretty, but the speed was about the same as RTW, LOL! In some ways they were better than RTW. The AI inflicted far more casualties in LOTR2 than RTW is able to inflict. Rock/paper/scissors worked better.

[Murmandamus]

Played way too many games to list 10 in order but some favs that I can think of atm are:

RTW and STW (didn't like MTW)
Syndicate
Total Annihilation
GP2, GPL and GTR for racing games.
Duke3D, Deus Ex, Max Payne, Call of Duty
Pool of Radiance, Azure Bonds and SotSB (C64), Phantasy Star (master system), Wizardry 8, Baldurs Gate
Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, Heavy Gear 2

[Red Harvest]

ah, you young'uns. you've missed so many ;)

17. Pong (arcade)
18. Donkey Kong (arcade)
19. Trek (main frame ascii graphic)
20. Pacman (arcade)


K.

LOL. I was thinking more along the lines of Asteroids, Space Invaders, and Defender.

I still remember hanging out by the Atari displays when they first came out, trying to find other kids to play 1vs1 in the biplane/tanks game. That was in silicon valley.

I still have my Intellivision. It has been a few years since I last played it, but it had many great titles. It was head and shoulders above the original Atari--none of the Atari games ever hooked me. But the Intellivision had depth (and much better graphics.)

[screwtype]

RTW and STW (didn't like MTW)

The thing I could never understand about MTW is why they changed the battle engine from STW. The MTW engine is clearly inferior. Units respond to commands slower, when you pull a group of units across terrain some of them line up in screwy ways, and the FPS rate is clearly inferior. Not to mention the missile units that don't skirmish. The graphics are fuzzier and less pretty on the battlemap as well.

MTW with the STW battle engine would have been a much better game. You can't help but make an unfavourable comparison when coming to MTW from the older game.

BTW, I notice you mentioned Deus Ex as one of your favourites, but I don't think anyone has put Deus Ex 2 into their top ten. It was a much awaited game but doesn't appear to have created much excitement. Was it a disappointing sequel?

[screwtype]

Walmart, in the bargain bin. At least, Silent Hunter II for the PC. The new SHIII just came out as well
http://www.silenthunterii.com/

I bought a copy of that for $9.95 a few months ago and it screwed up my computer. I had to reload an old registry list to get the thing working again.

I did eventually find a way to play it without it causing too many problems as I recall, but I didn't find the action very compelling anyhow. Perhaps interest had waned by then because of all the problems I'd had trying to install it.

Anyhow, I deinstalled it a couple of weeks after getting it to work, and wouldn't reinstall now because I've forgotten exactly what problems it causes and I'd have to go through the whole mess again.

Thanks for the suggestion though

[econ21]

Yeah, I like the STW battle engine better than MTWs. It does look prettier to me too and the AI did appear to put up more of a challenge. But where MTW shines is at the strategic level. There are so many more strategic possibilities playing as, say, England than there are when playing as Shimazu. There's scope for role-playing, especially with Glorious Achievements; and there's no equivalent of the Hojo horde. Not to mention the factions' strategic positions and orders of battle are much more varied. STW is a gem, no doubt, but MTW is a like a crown of jewels by comparison.

[screwtype]

I believe they realeased a special Siege Pack expansion for II which let you play on some 'historically accurate' castles and added quite a few additional features that aren't present in the original.
It also improved the AI a whole lot, especially for the siege battles. If my memory serves me correct it also added a map editor, more maps, a custom battle mode, more castle designs, more diplomatic options and random events.

Yeah, when I bought LOTR II for my PC I got it in a package that included everything ever released in the series including the Siege Pack.

I'm afraid that none of it remotely challenges the Amiga version of the game.

The biggest disappointment was the extra "worlds" that came with the Siege Pack. I envisaged huge worlds with dozens and dozens of provinces to conquer and Lords to battle against. But I don't think any of them have more than about a dozen provinces, if that. So it doesn't matter whether you are playing tiny Ireland or vast America, you still have the same little handful of provinces to play with!

A lot of the worlds are really cheesy as well. Circular worlds. Square worlds. Other worlds that are patterned on some geometric shape. Apart from looking silly, none of them add anything to new to gameplay, since the number of provinces is always about the same.

[screwtype]

@ Simon

I never got that deep into MTW but I agree there are more strategic options. I'd probably enjoy it more now if I went back to it, STW really isn't big enough for me anymore, I pretty much exhausted the possibilities in that game long ago, having played and won with every faction.

But I'll still never understand why they redesigned the battle engine for MTW to come up with something worse.