Petition

**Ldvs** · 04-18-2005, 17:26

I don't know whether this is the appropriate forum or not but many members of TWCenter have participated in the creation of a petition to CA and Activision.

In case you want to know more about this, go there:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index...howtopic=28217

The petition is here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/rtw/petition.html

**Catiline** · 04-18-2005, 18:34

There are already threads here in the Ludus Magna dedicated to working with CA to improve RTW in the expansion. That dialogue is the approach sponsored by .org to liasing with CA, and I would encourage you to particitpate in the construtcive efforts to resolve the issues.

See here - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46366

**Ldvs** · 04-18-2005, 20:08

Ok, feel free to remove my thread then if it's agaisnt the Org's policy. I just meant to inform the members here, not to cause turmoil

**Ab Urbe Condita** · 04-18-2005, 22:35

Is .Spartan the one who keeps stickying all those redundant, moronic rants agaomst CA? At any rate, he would do well to get rid of that tired old mantra.

**Kraxis** · 04-19-2005, 01:50

Please not another 'campaign'-war...

Either sign up or don't, but please add to the thread mentioned.

**Gregoshi** · 04-19-2005, 02:12

Hello Ab.

Originally Posted by Forum Rules

The Guild expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs or insults adressed to an individual or a group is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.

**barocca** · 04-19-2005, 02:32

bad idea

first the online community is only a small fraction of total sales volume

second the petition is a threatened boycott,
that is never a good way to get a big company (activision) to listen to a minority group,
all that does is promise them the removal from the community of their most vocal critics.

In Short the petition is win/win all the way for Activision and CA, they lose nothing by simply ignoring it - a few hundred sales on the scale of total volume wont matter one iota and all the yelling and screaming stops.

CA and Activision will ignore it.

i dont support such a petition and neither does the Org
Far better to work with them to ensure the expansion is as good as it can get.

B.

**HarunTaiwan** · 04-19-2005, 02:54

second the petition is a threatened boycott,
that is never a good way to get a big company (activision) to listen to a minority group,

This is only true with software apparently.

Otherwise we'd never see boycott of Shell, Nike, Coca Cola, McDonalds products etc. These all have some effects because most companies worry about their reputation and customers. (Not many people could get away with shipping defective product and only promising two repairs. Would you buy a car like that?)

No offense to the org, but I always sense some sort of deferential attitude towards CA...perhaps you guys are concerned they will stop posting here? (I think that's a legitimate fear seeing how they operate.)

That said, I do notice they now have an interest in feedback - maybe someone over there thought it through, and figured it out. Especially if they wish to retain the RTW fans as free beta-testers.

**Nelson** · 04-19-2005, 03:42

Originally Posted by HarunTaiwan

No offense to the org, but I always sense some sort of deferential attitude towards CA...perhaps you guys are concerned they will stop posting here? (I think that's a legitimate fear seeing how they operate.)

I doubt many CA visitors would call it deferential. Not lately anyway.

Treating developers rationally and sensibly is a mater of common sense. This is a site aimed at CA’s Total War franchise. So yeah, we want CA to feel welcome here. Who else can give us better insight into the games?

There is no need for the Org to verify its’ bona fides as a neutral fair minded site by alienating the developers over issues that bother certain patrons to extremes. That would be plain stupid. No one must kowtow to CA. Everyone must treat them with respect. They are patrons like the rest of us. Sure they get a few “Thank yous” when they post and why should they not? This a hobby for us but a job for them.

I’d much sooner read a post describing how a certain aspect of the game was designed by someone who was there than read another “AI is dumb” post regurgitated for the 10th time by the same patron. You see, we have a deferential attitude toward those patrons too.

**Kekvit Irae** · 04-19-2005, 03:56

Personally, I'm against game petitions. They are redundant.
If a publisher/developer produces such a game that warrents a petition, I'm pretty sure they are already aware of the problem.

**HarunTaiwan** · 04-19-2005, 04:39

I don't know about your industry, but in mine we love hearing from consumers...because it's the best way to give them the products they want. And the more volume of complaint, the clearer you are where the problem lies. (and yeah, you need to have a thick skin when someone calls your product a steaming heap of .....)

I think CA is now doing the smart thing by taking the bug list for the XP. It deflates a lot of anger and diverts it to constructive use.

This is what they should have done in March - announced that in XP they would duly address many of our issues, and then ask for a list. Maybe they were busy then.

p.s. I think repetitive complaints about the AI are fully valid, and CA should give a lot of weight to that. If no one ever complained, they wouldn't necessarily know it was an issue. With 1.2, I DO appreciate the general doesn't charge 100% of the time right into the spear line.

BTW, the org is great - I think I'm addicted. Thanks for all your guys work. Do you guys have a donation site?

**KukriKhan** · 04-19-2005, 06:08

It's all free, for the price of registration - and there is no money sought or offered (hence '.org', a non-profit, unofficial game enthusiast site, run on donated time by volunteers). Some .org staff have spent their own money buying products (like this forum software, and the totalwar.org domain name, for example) but seek no compensation or even recognition; just a well-run, civil place to discuss games in general, and the total war-series in particular.

That lack of financial ties to developers, publishers...indeed our own membership, enables the .org to maintain an even keel during the inevitable controversies (as there have been for each demo, release, patch, and expansion). We strive for balance in outlook and output. More signal, less static. More light, less heat. More content, less blah-blah.

We do not stifle dissent or complaint; we do try to direct that energy into a positive direction, for the overall benfit of our entire community (that ever-changing stew of gameplayers, game-makers, game sellers and others).

Uh-oh. I got a bit soap-boxish there.