Has anyone actually LOST before

[Budwise]

My recent experience with the Horde/Bys. tag team against me as the Turks, I though I was done for for a while. I eventually survived but it leads me to ask, has anyone ever been annilated, or lose on any account other than the infamous no heir loss.

[mfberg]

The no heirs loss happened to me a bit, I had a habit of sending my kings into battle, after a couple of kings got creamed I quit doing that. I have also lost when I razed all of my buildings, destroyed all of my units (except king & heirs) and sent my king and heirs into a cross-europe trip.

mfberg

[Procrustes]

A few times I've tried switching to some puny faction (using the -ian switch) after I got huge to see if I could dig their economy out of the hole and reestablish them, and then lost every time. I found I could play it out longer by switching to a faction that I was allied with as the super-power before I switched - otherwise my old faction would bribe any armies I had left away from me, or just pummel me into submission. Once I switched from the French to the Danes, who I was allied with. The AI had played the Danes as stupidly as always - they had just sat in Denmark going into debt paying off royal knights. I got rid of everyone I thought I could and then invaded Sweden. France immediatly invaded Norway. Then I started having peasant rebellions - I couldn't hold onto both provinces and my king ended up besieged in his castle. To my amazement France sent armies to rescue me as an ally. I eventually gave up, though - I was just so deeply in debt there was no way out of the hole.

I've found that this can be a fun way to extend the games. I lose interest if I get too big, but sometimes I can switch to a faction that is fragmented but still recoverable and keep playing, basically starting over against myself. It doesn't work if my old faction has a huge bank account, though - the AI starts bribing everything on the board. (I think it was Katank who I first saw mention this play style.)

[Satyr]

Sure! I've lost a few times. Try loading one of the good mods that make the game harder (medmod, xl mod, bkb super mod) and play as the HRE. In particular, if you can win as the HRE in Medmod v.3.14 in Early or High you are doing really well. I have also lost as the Turks in High in Medmod when the Horde, the Byz, and the Burgundians all took offense to my existence. In VI I have lost as both the Picts and the Scots when the Vikings decided to pick on me long enough that the Saxons took over the rest of the world before I could gain much size.

[Kommodus]

I think I'm about to lose in my Northumbrian campaign on Hard - my second VI campaign. The Vikings have raided repeatedly from the beginning, and while I managed to drive them away, they did tremendous damage to my economy, until even though my armies were very small, my tiny income could barely support them - much less allow me to build anything. I also couldn't build ships since the Vikings controlled the waves, and the only nations capable of striking their navy were allied with them.

I very slowly managed to build a few farming upgrades. I had just gathered a large enough income to finance a war with the Scots, and had just seized that one really wealthy Scottish territory (can't remember its name), when suddenly the Saxons, who had conquered Mercia, rushed into my lightly defended south with their huge armies. They took three provinces in one turn, and my kingdom fractured in a civil war. Now all I've got are a few territories with small armies, and I don't think it'll be long before I'm completely overrun by the Saxons. Oh well, maybe I'll have better luck next time.

[ichi]

Sure I've lost, several times from the No Heirs dealio but also from just plain old losing as the HRE and as the Welsh

ichi

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I lost once as Scicilians because I went on a rampage against more powerful factions and destroyed all my buildings...

Other than that, no.

[Es Arkajae]

Other than from 'no-heirs' yes I lost once as the Italians.

My king died and my five provinces erupted into civil war, which was a real problem since I was at war with Hungary, Germany and the Papal States at the time aswell as the Byzantines, worse still I had been pursuing a defensive strategy against them all as it was more fun. As a united Italy this strategy was going fine. When the civil war struck though my defence crumbled.

I was reduced to just Sardinia and Corsica with the remains of my armies that I managed to evacuate from Tuscany and my significant fleet sucking up my remaining income.

Needless to say my naval war against the Byzantines began going badly especially when Sicily also decided to gang up on me.

The Byzantines eventually finished me off landing a large well equipped army in Sardinia under a multi star general and taking the island and then moving onto Corsica.

My 'last stand' wasn't very impressive and involved my last few peasants defending a breach into the central keep getting slaughtered by Byzantine infantry.

I was peeved but still kind of pleased at the same time, it certainly reinforced my opinion about the excellent quality of the game in my eyes.

[pdoan8]

I lost few campaigns.

Shortest campaign (13 turns): Early Danish.

Relying on the early alliance with the HRE ten years into the campaign, I sent most of the troops to take Sweden. Took quite a few casualties to beat those 6 units of Vikings. The very next turn, The HRE broke the treaty and invade Denmark, which was defended by 2 Vikings, one Round Spear and 1 Royal Knight. Not a chance facing a full stack. The next turn, there was a rebel in Sweden and the HRE invasion at the same time. I'm done.

Second Shortest Campaign (around 20 turns): Early Spanish

Around the tenth turn, I invade the rebel Valencia and won quite easily. The next turn, the Almohad invade Valencia. I lost the battle because I have no defense against the AUM. The King's influence drop (because he was a good runner and cowardly). In the next few turns, the Almohad managed to bribe all of my generals (including the heirs) and besiege the Spanish King in Castile. I quit before the humiliate lost.

There are few more hopeless situations where I accepted the lost and start a new campaign.

[travel zen]

The best factions for me are the Russians and the Golden Horde. Pretty much invinsible.

[bretwalda]

I lost once with the Turks/High/Hard. I could not hold off the Horde in Georgia and once the frontline defenses were torn they had little problem... So I saw the "you are defeated" ending

[Zarax]

I lost once as the Danish in my modded game...
I was quite busy with repealing the horde from my eastern territories and forgot to keep in check the spanish as they were becoming the superpower...
By the time i vanquished the horde they had more or less 30000 soldiers and annihilated any other AI opposition...
Despite inflicting their armies losses of at least 6 to 1 i was slowly but inhexorably overwhelmed, until they reached my scandinavian production centers and cut them out...
My last stand saw about 600 Danish (mostly huskarls) fighting against 8000 spanish troops.
It was an epic battle, with heroic troops (average valor was 12) fighting against swarm after swarm...
I almost had an hope to vanquish them until they brought a couple of lancer units in the fields, which managed to break my lines...

[Butcher]

I have lost first turn as the Turks on High when my royal family was wiped out by the Byz's.. oops.

[CherryDanish]

Only once as the English due to my king dying without an heir. I replayed a saved game and salvaged the campaign, but technically, I should have lost.

I have lost fights, but never the war.

[ShadesWolf]

Generally the answer is no, I have had a number of campaigns when I was testing for my faction guides that proved how easy it could be to lose.

It also shows how in certain situations the AI always does the same thing.

[Yoyoma1910]

I lost the first time I played. I was the French... and perhaps I had drank a little too much wine in order to feel the part better.

[DisruptorX]

I lost many times when I was learning how to play, one AI factions, usually the Spanish or French, would become an Uber-power, and I couldn't field enough men to prevent them from crushing me. Also, Beating Egypt with the Almohads was impossible for me as a beginner, as they could easily rush me with camels and n00bian spearmen.

Once I better learned the intricacies of the game, I have only lost a few times, always from lack of heirs.

[Sir Toma of Spain]

I have lost 3 times:
once as the English just as i was getting the upper hand against the french and my heir was 3 turns from maturing my king died and i lost.

another time i was the russians and owned the almost the entire world except the papacy and a few islands when my king died leaving his 52 year old brother to rule without any heirs. I nearly hit the screen with a hammer.

i also lost once as the italians when after taking naples from byz and serbia from rebels while at war with the byzantines and sicilians when the byzantines attacked serbia and annialated my entire fleet causing civil war. Unfortunately i had never had a civil war and didn't read the message and sided withe the rebels who only had corsica. then it ended very quickly

[TheWingedVictory]

I once controlled a grand Spanish Empire (though it may sound silly to some ppl who literally conquered the whole map, it was the biggest I have ever created), pretty much the size of the western roman empire, extending from scandinavia, france, british isles, Corsica and neigboring isles, and half of the north african coast. But I never knew computers can have such intelligence, as one time I was in peace with the Byzantines (By this time, pretty much the whole of Europe and Africa/Arabia was divided between me, Byzantines, and the Egyptians) and I kept allying and betraying and conquering the bordering nations because they simply couldn't declare war on me because I was simply darn to powerful and they dare not challenge my will muhahahha, anyways while I stayed not to anger Egypt, because I learned that muslim nations are the hardest and the most annoying to conquer. Then suddenly, Byzantines attacked one of my region which was lightly defended, and I transferred most of my army to France to beat the crap out of the weakilings with my grand army. Then those sly Egyptians broke the alliance with me taking the advantage and allied itself with the Byzantines because apparantly it wanted to reclaim its old region, which was the region that I conquered from almohads when i allied my self with egypt to defeat the als, as it launched a jihad against that region. I was so pissed I was about to kill all the egyptians but I found it very difficult to fight 2 enormous nations at once especially if they are working together. Lol but the good thing was that I have organized to put 2 inquisitors on every region of the empire so the zeal would be 100% in every regions of my empire, even in muslim regions, so almost all of the regions conquered by byz and egypt would rebel and give me back the control of that region. With my almost unlimited spanish wealth (I didn't use cheats) I bought armies and bribed alot of the enemy generals but got difficult in moving the army and organzing all of them so i just messed around for a few days and ACTUALLY DELETED THE WHOLE CAMPAGNE!!!!. I so much regret doing that and also uninstalling the game itself, as I just still dream about the glory I had witnessed of my Spanish Empire in the virtual world of mtw.

[TheWingedVictory]

I have lost 3 times:
once as the English just as i was getting the upper hand against the french and my heir was 3 turns from maturing my king died and i lost.

another time i was the russians and owned the almost the entire world except the papacy and a few islands when my king died leaving his 52 year old brother to rule without any heirs. I nearly hit the screen with a hammer.

i also lost once as the italians when after taking naples from byz and serbia from rebels while at war with the byzantines and sicilians when the byzantines attacked serbia and annialated my entire fleet causing civil war. Unfortunately i had never had a civil war and didn't read the message and sided withe the rebels who only had corsica. then it ended very quickly

Indeed Italians are so frequent in Civil War, as I have tried to bring glory to them but they were too much divided, for 2 times I tried them but I simply was stuck as a puppet state. No wonder why Italians weren't able to return its former glory of Rome.

[TheWingedVictory]

I once controlled a grand Spanish Empire (though it may sound silly to some ppl who literally conquered the whole map, it was the biggest I have ever created), pretty much the size of the western roman empire, extending from scandinavia, france, british isles, Corsica and neigboring isles, and half of the north african coast. But I never knew computers can have such intelligence, as one time I was in peace with the Byzantines (By this time, pretty much the whole of Europe and Africa/Arabia was divided between me, Byzantines, and the Egyptians) and I kept allying and betraying and conquering the bordering nations because they simply couldn't declare war on me because I was simply darn to powerful and they dare not challenge my will muhahahha, anyways while I stayed not to anger Egypt, because I learned that muslim nations are the hardest and the most annoying to conquer. Then suddenly, Byzantines attacked one of my region which was lightly defended, and I transferred most of my army to France to beat the crap out of the weakilings with my grand army. Then those sly Egyptians broke the alliance with me taking the advantage and allied itself with the Byzantines because apparantly it wanted to reclaim its old region, which was the region that I conquered from almohads when i allied my self with egypt to defeat the als, as it launched a jihad against that region. I was so pissed I was about to kill all the egyptians but I found it very difficult to fight 2 enormous nations at once especially if they are working together. Lol but the good thing was that I have organized to put 2 inquisitors on every region of the empire so the zeal would be 100% in every regions of my empire, even in muslim regions, so almost all of the regions conquered by byz and egypt would rebel and give me back the control of that region. With my almost unlimited spanish wealth (I didn't use cheats) I bought armies and bribed alot of the enemy generals but got difficult in moving the army and organzing all of them so i just messed around for a few days and ACTUALLY DELETED THE WHOLE CAMPAGNE!!!!. I so much regret doing that and also uninstalling the game itself, as I just still dream about the glory I had witnessed of my Spanish Empire in the virtual world of mtw.

umm.. actually if I think about it now, I conquered beyond France and pretty much all of the holy roman empire as western european nations were sandwiched and squashed between me and the byz, as we raced toward gaining more land from those weak nations, just like the race to berlin during ww2 between the russians and the americans.

[TheWingedVictory]

the glory of my spanish empire, such as my chivalrous knights crapping the barbarians or a poorly trained enemy peasants.

[Zarax]

Indeed Italians are so frequent in Civil War, as I have tried to bring glory to them but they were too much divided, for 2 times I tried them but I simply was stuck as a puppet state. No wonder why Italians weren't able to return its former glory of Rome.

Not after you mod the game a bit

After i rebalanced things a bit now the Italian AI is specialized in amphibious assaults...
They especially like kicking out spanish and almohads, but will grab any coastal reign they can reach (I'm desperately trying to apply the same to the danish but no result so far)...
The French have now an excellent rival and are really kept in balance.

Also, if you want to see balance in the east it's very simple: change the Byz to "Orthodox Expansionist" AI, they will keep the Eggys in check and often conquer the whole eastern part of the map...

[TheWingedVictory]

I don't know the technical mod thingy, and I have never fought an amphibious battle in my life as I simply never saw a single ship in a coastal battle, both in VI and mtw. How do you do it?

[Zarax]

Sorry, i mean that the italians now attack any coastal region they can reach...
A scenario like you described would be available only with the source code and a lot of work...

[Martok]

I maybe should've known better, but I lost a campaign a few months ago when playing as the Aragonese. It's not a faction that I've played very often, but I was looking for something different for once, plus I wanted a bit more of a challenge. Well as they say, "Be careful what you wish for; you just might get it!"

Things started well enough. I bribed El Cid and got Valencia, and then quickly conquered Navarre as well. Several turns later, the French got ex-commed, so I launched a crusade into Tolouse and was successful. Several turns after that, El Cid (along with 3 of my princes) took Cordoba from the Almohads. So after maybe 20 turns, things were looking good.....

.....Or not! I'd apparently pissed off more people than I'd realized. For I was suddenly attacked by 3 different factions within 4 years. The Almohads, acting more aggressively than what I'm used to, counterattacked and successfully retook Cordoba. This fact by itself wouldn't have been so bad, however, had I not lost El Cid and 2 of my sons as well (I was outnumbered almost 4 to 1, and I was dumb enough to try fighting the battle instead of just abandoning the province).

At the same time that this happened, the French sent an army to retake Toulouse. I won the battle--barely--but it was a Phyrric victory. My army was so decimated by the fighting that when France sent another army the next year to invade Toulouse, I had no choice but to withdraw.

The year after I abandoned Toulouse, the Almohads invaded Valencia, which was so poorly defended that again my only real option was to get the hell out of Dodge.

A year after that, Spain--apparently smelling blood--invaded Navarre and Aragon proper. In Navarre I didn't stand a snowball's chance, as I'd been forced the two previous turns to strip the garrison there to just a handful of peasants and urban militia.

I fared somewhat better in Aragon itself, as my king and 2 surviving princes (along with some archers and militia seargents) managed to decimate a good part of the Spanish army in the field. In the end, though, I simply didn't have enough men to hold back the tide. I also found out the hard way that early Royal Knights don't fare the greatest against Jinettes that are smart enough to keep their distance and just hurl their damned javelins at you!

The seige of Barcelona was a pitiful affair, as Alfonso (that snake!) chose to starve me out rather than storm the castle. I decided to not wait until the bitter end, and instead sallied out from the gates and led my men in one final charge. It was a good death.

[Budwise]

To answer my own question (I play on Normal) - No, I have never lost. Never came close. Not saying that I am better or worst, I just tend to leave big garrisons EVERYWHERE and vastly waste precisous money. Infact, I only had a Civil War once and it wasn't all that big. Not nearly as big as some of the other ones that I have heard of.

I have played and got a 100% with the Italians and 60% with both Elmos, British and Polish.

[TheWingedVictory]

Yes I have tried Aragonese too, but quit in a single day because of the frustration of their puny territory.

[ShadowMagnet]

Twice, yes. Once as the Danes when my optimistic conquest of Norway turned out a tad ill-prepared and lost my heir AND my king in one turn. All in all 3 years into the game. Second time my Polish Slav warriors could not fend off HRE and, with some crappy generals in command, I lost my final big battle in Silesia. The "no retreat" battles are dog's bollocks no doubt. Still, lost. Miss the old "Seppukugen" clip from Shogun tho.

[TheWingedVictory]

Oh yes, I remember playing Danes too, I conquered Scotland, scandinavia, and some rebel faction that came out of hre. But eventually those darn germans conquered all of denmark and scandinavia, leaving me only scotland to rule. I got frustrated and deleted the campaign just like i did to my grand spanish empire campaign.