Samurai in STW ... how good are they ?

[Togakure]

The Legendary Swordsman event occurs when an individual warrior gains a certain amount of honor in battle (I don't remember exactly how much). A really cool video of a samurai performing a kenjutsu kata plays (he's inside a dojo with a misty outdoor view in the background). This event occured in the original STW as well as in WE/MI. Once this event was triggered, you could build a Sword Dojo and its subsequent improved versions, and could train No Dachi swordsmen once it was completed.

The Kensai unit was introduced in STW WE/MI, so if you played the original then you wouldn't have seen it.

[SpencerH]

Thanks for that. I must've seen it since I certainly built No Dachi but I never played any mods.

[kiwitt]

Thanks TogakureOjonin. I must really get a copy of this game now.

[econ21]

Best thing about Samurai in STW, IMO, is the Samurai archer. Far superior in ranged lethality to the MTW archer, when you command them to draw their swords, they are only marginally inferior to the spear armed yari samurai. With only a little extra in their favour - height, numbers, a good leader etc - they can win in close combat. Protected by spears, they very efficient counters to dangerous enemy foes like No-Dachi, monks and cavalry. They make bridge battles particularly murderous.

[Togakure]

Oops ... all that writing and I did forget to mention Yumi Samurai ... . Thanks SimonAppleton, for adding this in.

Yes, Samurai Archers can be very useful in SP campaigns in particular because you end up producing them with good upgrades and base honor. In MP, because of their base cost, it is expensive to upgrade them to the point where they melee well. As most Yari Samurai and No Dachi are in the H5-H6 range (monks H3-H4), you'd have to upgrade archers significantly to get them to the point where they could compete effectively with these. Hence, most use them strictly for ranged capability when they use them at all. They will outshoot muskets 1v1--until their ammo runs out. Then they are only useful in filling gaps in an emergency, and flanking weak or wavering units (and the remaining muskets will mow them down if left on the front line without arrows, as muskets almost never run out of ammo in a battle).

Muskies are favored in MP, though many bring 1 or 2 archers to complement their ranged line (of 4 muskets). They can shoot over the heads of units in front of them, whereas muskets cannot, so this can be a handy ability in many situations.

[Productivity]

Just a quick point TogakureOjonin, I think Hashishin are muslim wide, rather than Turk specific. I could be wrong though.

[Togakure]

I think you are right. There is a little announcement box that comes up early in the Egyptian campaign, describing the Hashishin. I've never built them. The infrastructure required is up there, and I just haven't had the need for them when playing the Egyptians (I haven't played a Turk campaign yet). Good to point that out, thanks.

[Puzz3D]

Yes, Samurai Archers can be very useful in SP campaigns in particular because you end up producing them with good upgrades and base honor. In MP, because of their base cost, it is expensive to upgrade them to the point where they melee well.

Muskies are favored in MP, though many bring 1 or 2 archers to complement their ranged line (of 4 muskets). They can shoot over the heads of units in front of them, whereas muskets cannot, so this can be a handy ability in many situations.

Samurai Archers in original STW were better in melee than what they are in WE/MI. In addition, guns were much weaker in original STW, and they didn't fire at all if it rained. In MP, there were players who were quite good at using Samurai Archers in melee, and they didn't like the weakening of the unit in WE/MI. It had been turned exclusively into a shooter, and had to go up against guns that had increased 300% in firepower.

[kiwitt]

I have found a second hand copy of STW+MI and am bidding for it now. Wish me luck in getting it.

[Togakure]

Samurai Archers in original STW were better in melee than what they are in WE/MI. In addition, guns were much weaker in original STW, and they didn't fire at all if it rained. In MP, there were players who were quite good at using Samurai Archers in melee, and they didn't like the weakening of the unit in WE/MI. It had been turned exclusively into a shooter, and had to go up against guns that had increased 300% in firepower.

I haven't played the original STW since WE/MI came out, but the more I hear about it, the more I think I need to dig it up and try some custom battles with it to experience the differences.

I very rarely use guns in campaigns, even with WE/MI, as archers are so prolific, and effective in both ranged and melee roles at the honor and upgrade levels at which you tend to find them. When I first played MP I tried using archers, but the muskets everyone brought just shredded me once I ran out of arrows, so I quickly converted over to musks in order to survive a battle.

Yes I agree, the Samurai Archer is underpowered and overshadowed severely by hyper-powerful muskets in 1.02. I played a few "muskets disallowed" games this week (archers, CA only for ranged), and they were a refreshing contrast to the typical 1.02 battle. I tend to use archers a lot more when using the 1.03 stat.

Interesting to know that WE/MI muskets are 300%stronger than those in the original STW. Thanks for commenting, Puzz3D.

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Cool Kiwitt . Maybe you will try MP with us Shogun Diehards sometime (Toga hopes ...)? Whatever the case, have lots of fun with it. I've definitely gotten my money's worth.