Who Wants A Tournament?

[Drisos]

Well....we could have a tournament if Someone didnt drop out not to mention ne names but ........hmmmmmmm

Hello Just A Girl,

do I understand this quite weird post well: someone wanted to join, but now doesn't want to anymore?

That wouldn't be a problem, we just need to find another player.

Shambles, how about this?

[Togakure]

I have withdrawn from the competition Drisos, as I am about to be admitted into a rather prestigious VI clan and will be very busy training and getting up to speed. I will, however, work with you as I promised.

The manner of speaking that Just A Girl uses reminds me of Trish, Shambles' wife ... as does the wry, tongue-in-cheek, sassy nature of her comments. I think she is giving me a lighthearted bad time because I withdrew from the tournament. All in good fun though, I'm sure.

No worries .... there will probably end up being more players interested eventually than the tournament can accommodate. It just takes time for word to get around is all.

[Drisos]

I must say that deep inside I dislike it that you probably won't be playing STW anymore, m8. But I should act as a good friend: I wish you lots of fun and luck in playing VI MP, I hope that you'll get in that clan you're talking of.

Of course you'll be busy with VI a lot, but you won't abandon Sword dojo, would you?

Well, good luck and enjoy!

[Shambles]

yeah it was trish.
ive had a word with her she didnt think youd take it to heart so she didnt remove it

Shes just teasing.
She never used to tease people but ive been somewhat of a bad influence on her,


ShambleS

[Togakure]

Hey Shambles m8, no problem at all. I was grinning when I read it cuz I figured it was her. I understand the frustration--was a tough choice for me but, I am having fun learning vi and I will need to work at it if I am to carry my weight with the clan I'm in the process of joining.

Drisos m8, it doesn't mean I won't be playing STW MP anymore, just not nearly as often for a while until I get my vi skills up. While vi is like STW in some ways, in a lot of ways it's quite different. The guys I'm in the process of hooking up with are very good players so I'll have to work to improve my vi-specific skills. I'll still be able to come online and play STW sometimes.

I'll always keep and eye on the Sword Dojo and help out folks when I can m8. I'm quite fond of the place.

[Shambles]

Yah id been watching you get more involved with MTW, toga
"lurking in the forum"
guessed it would probably lead to that But its no problem really,
I began playing mtw, Personaly I like the campaign mode in MTW.
But im going to stick with my shogun for multi play.

Hope you have fun :)
==========================================================


So back to the tourniment

Who's gonna be the last entry :)??

a pic "of anything" and email is all u need :P
1st email that arives will be the one who joins,
so if you want to play but cant be bothered sending an email, You may want to re evaluate your position.

I see more than 8 ppl say they like STW most in a poll i made
So come play,
All skill levels are welcome Personaly I will probably loose in 1st round,
and if any 1 think's they could go on and win it all with ease....
so u dont want to play and embarase us ....
come and play any way,

Its just a bit of fun,

please send a pick 114 x 102 pixels and an email exprsessing Intrest to
shogun_tourniment@hotmail.com
shogun_tourniment@hotmail.com
If you like you can send any size picture and i will resize it.

==========================================================



EDIT.

Here we go then, In addition to the tourniment I am also going to accept Log files. from any battles,

But not through E-mail, becous it would Take for ever,

Its a simple idea and should work flawlessly,

Heres the plan.

You send me a email and i send you a user name and password,

you can then go to my web page and Upload your log files there.

You should name them like so,
username_date

Id prefer dd/mm/yy becous its an accending logical order
shortest 1st...

But you cand do it any way you like,

So heres an example.

ShambleS_06-05-05 NamE_DD-MM-YY
or
ShambleS_05-06-05 NamE_MM-DD-YY


they would be seen here.

http://shoguntw.no-ip.info
Theres also a Link now on wab page called Battle log files.

[Drisos]

Drisos m8, it doesn't mean I won't be playing STW MP anymore, just not nearly as often for a while until I get my vi skills up. While vi is like STW in some ways, in a lot of ways it's quite different. The guys I'm in the process of hooking up with are very good players so I'll have to work to improve my vi-specific skills. I'll still be able to come online and play STW sometimes.

I'll always keep and eye on the Sword Dojo and help out folks when I can m8. I'm quite fond of the place.

Glad to hear this Toga, I don't want to miss you.

[Puzz3D]

Id like feed back on the "super ashi" subject,

WE/MI v1.02 was designed to play at 7k koku per player. It was tested extensively at 7k, but the guns in those tests were weaker. The guns were increased in power on the last day of the beta test, and there wasn't enough time to test the effect on the overall gameplay of these more powerful guns. The guns in WE/MI v1.02 are 300% more powerful than the guns in original STW v1.12.

Two problems in v1.02 interact to mess up the gameplay. First, the guns were made too powerful. That causes the morale system to get messed up because too many casualties are inflicted per volley. That caused players to raise the koku to 10k/player so they can increase the morale of units with honor upgrades. That causes the second problem to kick in in a big way. The second problem is that the cost of upgrades is not calculated correctly. This error allows lower base cost units to pick up more combat power than higher base cost units for the same upgrade cost. If you play with too much koku, the rock, paper, scissors system is destroyed because lower base cost units become stronger than higher base cost units when both are upgraded to equal cost, and 10k is too much koku.

As far as I'm concerned, v1.02 plays better without guns at 7k. The 7k might be low enough to lift the ban on yari ashi, but I don't remember for sure. If you eliminated weapon and armor upgrades, that would remove the upgrade cost problem, and there would be no need to ban yari ashi or limit units in any way.

[Shambles]

Cant i just go edit the unit stats and make every 1 use them,
Reduce gun fire power.
it seems to be writen in hex so it should be easy.

and with these asigari creatures,
do they have their own multiplyer that i can change. so they get more expensive as the uprgades get added on, but it dosent afect the other units,
or would their be 1 multiplyer that covers all the uits,

I spose i should just go look lol.
but if otheres have already tried,....

EDIT,

What sets multiplier base value? origional honour level defence and mele
or is it units initial cost?
Becous expermineting now, i notice the ashigari problem is quite severe.
and id like to tweake them a little so people wouldnt really want to use them

[Togakure]

You can edit stats easily, simply by changing the values in the troopstats.txt and projectiles.txt files. However, balancing them is far from easy. Puzz3D and his crew are experts doing so, with years of experience, and they spend weeks to months editing and testing stats in order to get a balanced set.

AFAIK, base unit, honor, and upgrade costs are hard-coded and cannot be modified.

All players must use the same stat in an MP game or the game will fail as soon as players hit the battlefield. If you were to create a custom set of stats, you'd have to distribute them to all players you wanted to battle with online. Unless you include a statswapper, these stats would have to replace their original stats, and would take affect in every aspect of the game--MP, Single Player, Custom Battles, etc.

If you want to eliminate the 4 max rule and ban on ashi, I'd suggest using the 1.03 stat at 7K-8K koku. It is better balanced over all than the 1.02 stat, and you'd be leveraging the work of some knowledgeable people on the subject. The statswappers available already incorporate it, which would make its distribution and use easier. However, keep in mind that the majority of players who would likely be interested in playing at this late stage might prefer 1.02 with the "standard" limitations, as that is what they are used to. I think your biggest challenge is finding participants, so using the most popular stat set might help with that. Then again, there is a group that likes the 1.03 stat too. The challenge there would be getting them to participate. Good luck.

[Shambles]

i just want to make ashi's cost more really, But cant find where the unit base cost is hiden.

i tried making them stonger and better at defending But this had no real effect on upgrade costs, so i just changed it back,

for around 1500 koku i was able to make group of ashigari guys will 8h 3 w 3 a.

for roughly same i was able to build a group of warrior monks
2h 2w-1a

the ashigari's slaughtered them 120 kills to 15.

just charged them at the warrior monks,
So i really want to change how much they cost
Becous honestly,
thats quite rediculous,

Also the guns i had to adjust down 11 points,
but then i had to adjust the archers and crossbow men

They lost less points than the gun men.
But now i find the computer Shoots 1 volley and kills 6 of my men,
Where as i only kill 1 of his,
Even though he had to march in to my gun fire.
and was using the same 2 line formation as i was,

This i feel is strange,
As i have been told wepon upgrades do not afect muskets.
So i do not understand how they killed more of my men per volley when we were playing on Ironing board
and i had 3A on my musketeers.

I will continue to experiment though,
and i will see what the difrent stats have projectiles set to,

any help with ashigary base cost would be helpfull,
and if any 1 knows for shure that you can or cant change it Id be happy to hear.

and were still looking for 1 more contestant for the tourniment.
:)

ShambleS

[Togakure]

IIRC, that's the problem: costs, both base unit and upgrades, are hard-coded and can't be modified. Puzz3D knows this for sure I think, so I'm sure when he sees this he'll set us straight.

[Shambles]

well if its in tthe exe its self i can just decompile it.
But im not to clever at reading the jiobberish that then appears lol.

"it all looks the same to me"

[Togakure]

Yes, but reverse engineering of commericial software is illegal so of course you were just kidding . I'm sure the CA staff that patronize these forums understand this ... .

I think your best bet is to play with the stats in the two stat files m8. Many very sharp peeps have done so in the past and have come up with some nice stats. Maybe you too will find a nice combination.

[Puzz3D]

The units costs and upgrade costs are hardcoded and can't be changed.

I'll try to explain what causes the upgrades to imbalance the units. Even in the original STW which only had honor upgrades, the system allowed cheaper units to close the combat power gap with more expensive units. For instance, an H2 YS costing 200 koku had 6 combat points, but could be upgraded to H5 with 12 combat points and 12 morale, and cost 549 koku. The H2 WM at 500 koku had 11 combat points and 12 morale, so the H5 YS is 20% stronger and retains it's anti-cav bonus for only 50 koku more. The WM retained a speed advantage over the YS. Original STW was played at 5k koku so you couldn't go overboard with upgrading since you only had an average of 312 koku to spend on each unit. The H7 YA cost 538 koku and had 12 combat points and 10 morale. It matched the WM in speed but not in morale. So the original game was on a fine line between balance and imbalance at 5k koku.

In WE/MI, weapon and armor upgrades were introduced at the request of the players. However, Creative Assembly made a mistake when they added the weapon and armor upgrades in WE/MI. The cost of honor, weapon and armor are all figured independently on the base cost of the unit, and then added together. This gives an even bigger cost advantage in upgrading cheaper units because all three categories of upgrades are cheaper for lower cost units. The cheapest unit (yari ashi) gets the biggest benefit from this, but it affects all the units to some degree. Since the guns in WE/MI forced the koku level to go up to 10k, the upgrade problem is very bad for the RPS. Even original STW without weapon and armor upgrades would have a damaged RPS at 10k.

I'd try to handle it with rules. If you got rid of the muskets and played at 7k, you might be able to lift the ban on YA. The arquebusiers are probably ok since they have shorter range, longer reload and don't fire in the rain. However, many players have learned how to exploit the upgrade system in v1.02 with the no-ashi/4 gun rule, and have their armies all worked out through experience. You might loose some of them from the tourney.

I find that 4 muskets is still too many since each 60 man musket can kill 300 men. One 250 koku unit which cannot be successfully charged frontally can kill 5 units. That's Projectile Wars, and I can play a WWII game if I want that.

[Togakure]

As far as I can tell, all but one of the seven currently signed up for the tourney haven't played much MP, and weren't around for the days of the 4 max/no ashi rules. My guess is they wouldn't know the difference if you ran the tournament as Puzz3D suggests--at 7K with no muskets, but allowing arquebusiers. Might be something to consider, given that your audience isn't attached to the old way of doing things in 1.02. Muskets do pretty much make a big part of a 1.02 battle "Projectile Wars." Personally I enjoyed some recent "no musket" games I had with RabidGibbon--they had a completely different dynamic when only archers and cav archers were the only ranged units used.

[Shambles]

Yes, but reverse engineering of commericial software is illegal so of course you were just kidding . I'm sure the CA staff that patronize these forums understand this ... .

I think your best bet is to play with the stats in the two stat files m8. Many very sharp peeps have done so in the past and have come up with some nice stats. Maybe you too will find a nice combination.

Its illigal?
well i spose i better not play then .

im going to see what i can do to the musketeers in stats,

and i have the origional cd of stw here cd 2 is scratched but in the past i copyed the 2 cd's to 1 folder, then as it tells me Filename.xxx is broken,
I replace them with a similar file that i renamed.
its only about 5 event anims that are effected by the scratch,
so when i do that i get a Boat landing event anim for ninga assasination and stuff lol. But it will then install.
So i can see what the stats origionaly were. on the 1st un patched version of shogun tw.

I dont want to stick a bunch of rules on people,
But the ashi's are a problem if i cant change their cost.

[Drisos]

Shambles, can you please give a summarize which players we have now?

[Shambles]

Just look at the tourniment page :)....

Ive taken flash butons away now so you dont need flash,
But you can skip the main page and go here

http://shoguntw.2ya.com/stwstats.htm

so 1st round is

Me vs hunkin elvis

trish (Just A Girl) vs Shakakahn

rabidgbbon vs Drisos (thats you)

and

Cha vs Next entry (whoever that will be)

And you left a emergency call in apothecary
i have replied.

[Drisos]

Great!

So I will be playing against rabidgibbon, hmmmm, is he good?

I wish everyone very much luck!

[Shambles]

Its not my place to judge other peoples abilaties :)
What is good to me may be bad to you and vice versa :)

so just see what happens :)

ShambleS

[Drisos]

OK shambles, than I'll just find it out in the battle !

I hope it's going to be an exiting tournament, I think so too.

I took a look at your websites tournament page, it's very nice!

[Puzz3D]

These are the WE/MI v1.02 projectile stats:

Length, Frequency, Range, Speed, Accuracy, Power, Reload, Is a gun?, Is Waterproof?

Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.6, 0.5, 6, 0, 1
}

Mounted Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.4, 0.5, 6, 0, 1
}

Arquebus
{
0, 15, 4000, 230, 0.12, 8.0, 33, 1, 0
}

Musket
{
0, 15, 5000, 230, 0.17, 4.0, 24, 1, 1
}

Ninja Star
{
0, 5, 1200, 100, 0.8, 1.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Javelin
{
0, 5, 2000, 90, 0.13, 1.0, 5, 0, 1
}

Grenade
{
0, 5, 1500, 90, 0.03, 6.0, 6, 0, 0
}

Crossbow
{
10, 5, 4000, 250, 0.15, 3.0, 15, 0, 1
}


These are the WE/MI v1.0 Projectile stats:

Length, Frequency, Range, Speed, Accuracy, Power, Reload, Is a gun?, Is Waterproof?

Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.6, 0.5, 4, 0, 1
}

Mounted Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.4, 0.5, 4, 0, 1
}

Arquebus
{
0, 15, 4000, 200, 0.07, 16.0, 30, 1, 0
}

Musket
{
0, 15, 5000, 250, 0.12, 16.0, 21, 1, 1
}

Ninja Star
{
0, 5, 1200, 100, 0.5, 1.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Javelin
{
0, 5, 1500, 80, 0.15, 2.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Grenade
{
0, 5, 1300, 80, 0.03, 6.0, 6, 0, 0
}

Crossbow
{
10, 5, 4000, 250, 0.15, 3.0, 15, 0, 1
}


All you have to do is take the guns in the WE/MI v1.0 stat and reduce the power from 16 to 4 on both muskets and arquebus. That will give you the guns as they were in original STW. You're only going to get about 1 kill per 20 gun volley on the target unit with these muskets, but the back kills are greater. Notice the reload on archers is 4 in the v1.0 stat. You may want to use that since the gun reload is also shorter.

However, I think you are better off just restricting the use of guns and yari ashi in v1.02, and playing at lower koku.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Fellow Taishos,

I thought it might be nice to look at some Armies I have encountered online:




10.000 Koku is the usual limit.
1.03 stats were used.


R'as

As far as I can recall, the first and fourth are Kansuke's, the second is mine, and the third is ShinGaiJin's. They are 1.02 armies.

interesting indeed . These demonstrate the wide variety in ratio between ysams and shock troops between players. I am very surprised to see h3 ysams. Perhaps the player was using them strictly to protect flanks against cav? h7w1 No Dachi!!! Sheesh! First time I've ever seen those used. That last army is an interesting one ... very interesting. Reminds me a little of one of Wolf Kansuke's tournament armies, except this one emphasizes strong ysams instead of a balance between both strong ysams and strong ND for infantry. Might have to play with that one a bit. The first one reminds me of an AggonyBetou army, though his armies are quite varied. I seem to remember being rushed by him with an army like this one.

Toga,

now that you say it, I'm not sure anymore if we used 1.03.
The games were either played friendly or in the 7Bear7-Tournament.
Players included Shingaijin, Kansuke, Heavysword, Mimesaka and some Aggonys.
The monk army was Kansukes if irc.
Perhaps someone sees this and could clarify.
If our moderator (Mimesaka aka Sasaki) shows up, he could probably tell.

[Shambles]

All contestants in the tourney need to Please set times for when they can play,

We now have enough entrys to comence,
So Lets sort out the times please :)

Also Please make shure you enable battel log files,
Thanks,
ShambleS

[Drisos]

I can enable log files in the options menu, huh?

My schedual is pretty weird at the moment, but it will be like this:

some afternoons: 13.30 to 16.30
some evenings: 18.30 to 21.30

Most days, I cannot play long at all. But in about 4 weeks, school ends, and I will be available all day.

[Zipper Yamamoto]

Hello All Shogites :)

And a special Thank-you for Shambles for hosting the Tournament.


I play under the name:


4[FONT=Century Gothic]47RoninZipper[/FONT]


and I can play any of the Tounament Games from 20.00GMT until 00.30GMT to accomodate all the participants.

My first game is with: CHA

So if you could post a time that is good for you I look forward to facing you.


Good Luck and Half Fun All of You!!

47RoninZipper

[Togakure]

Right on, Zipster--flying the 47Ronin flag m8, you honor us. Good to see the 47s represented in the tourney ( I will continue to use 47Ronin in Shogun also, as the Hunters don't play STW).

Good luck against Cha. He is talented and a wily coyote with his cav so watch out. He also presses center simultaneously with his musks and inf, and times his main charges well. He also dances well (remember the opening moves in the game between Anskar and me that you watched recently?).

[Shambles]

I can usualy play any time i like :)
so you let me know when to play please hunkin elvis,

Also you all should have receved an email by now with tourniment rules,
Please abide by them,

And here are the initial matches

CONTESTANT | PLAYING TIMES

ShambleS (me) - Any time
v's
Hunkin Elvis 3:30am-4:00am GMT on Fridays and Saturdays.
==========================

Trish (just a girl)- 6am-7pm GMT
vs
ShakaKahn -times not known
===========================

Rabidgibbon- Almost any time
vs
Drisos--some afternoons: 13.30 to 16.30
...........some evenings: 18.30 to 21.30
===========================

and
Cha- 3:00pm~4:00pm GMT on Fridays and Saturdays
vs
47RoninZipper - 20.00GMT until 00.30GMT
===========================

So work your times out here please :)
But Im updating tourniment page as i get playing times so, Just click on your oponents icon to see when they are most likley to be able to play

Have fun
ShambleS


Heres the leader board
http://shoguntw.2ya.com/stwstats.htm

[Just A Girl]

Looks like it's me n you Shakakahn i can do the tournament pretty much ne time between 11am and 12am (6-7 GMT) except for tomorrow