Who Wants A Tournament?

[Shambles]

Could every 1 interested please Visit
http://shoguntw.2ya.com
And look in the tourniment section please

Ive added some back grounds,
for images for the Tourniment board.

RabidGibbon Could you also check out the site as it has some details you may want.
And btw i did not recve any email sorry,
But that could be my fault as i neglected to finish setting up My hotmail account,
(its done now though)

Thank you for your Intrest.

ShambleS


P.S

Super ashi will be Left out of the tourniment.

[Shambles]

By the way,
Ive decided entrants will be Given there initial Placing
in accordance with when they joined the tourniment.

I.e 1st person who joins gets 1st space in the 1st block
second person gets 1st space in second Block
and so on,

Any objections and I will gladly rethink the matter,
And use some sort of Random factor, like picking straws :P
Or pick a name out of a hat,

so far 50% of the needed players have expressed an Intrest
and theres still more spaces,

Please Join And we can then Iron out The time's of play,

thanks
ShambleS

[Togakure]

Here's an idea to consider:

RabidGibbon and I had some more games tonight. In a couple of them, we chose not to use muskets in favor of archers. Though the battles turned out to be ferocious melees because of the starting positions we chose, not having muskets in the mix would change the ranged war aspect of a battle drastically and make for an interesting contrast. Perhaps allowing muskets in some tiers, but not in others?

Man, that huge ridge in the back of the Awaji map is a tremendous challenge for the attacker (a big height advantage plus fatigue, having to march across or around and up while also running the risk of ranged fire from above). Still, I guess if each competitor has to both attack and defend there it should be ok. The challenge would be for an attacker to overcome the significant disadvantage in order to take both the attacking and defending games.

Bizen is nice. Despite the valley in the middle, there are good options open to the attacker, no matter where the defender chooses to set up.

Forgot what the other map was when we were in the foyer. We'll give it a test run tomorrow mostly likely.

Is there any way to get the on-battlefield chat working? It sure is a bummer that we can't communicate on the field. This would be especially true in 2v2 or 3v3 battles (which I'm hoping we can have soon! I've e-mailed my wingm8 Anskar so hopefully he'll bring his purple banner and cheery demeanor, and join us soon).

[Shambles]

Glad to hear of more people joining :)
Could turn out to be good fun :)
I see me going out 1st round personally lol

as for game chat.
You can use roger wilco as a voice chat i spose, (allows multiple user chat)
But i dont know why battle chat dosent work.

If it works in Tosa's server Then you can easily play there.
Il just need a log file from both competitors.

And toga... Have you chosen a pic or made 1 for the torney board?
Id like to put you in your slot,
(theres more detail of this in the tourniment section of my site)
Also TheWingedVictory...
Could you let me know if you will be involved in this tourniment
thnx,

ShambleS

[Togakure]

For those interested, I conducted a little test using single units:

Warrior Monk H4, at a cost of 1078 koku, vs.
Yari Ashigaru, H8w3a2, at a cost of 1083 koku.

Weather was a fine day, map was IB, fatigue, morale on etc. I marched to the center of the map to meet the attacking WM so as to incure similar fatigue.

The WMs fought to the last man. I simply attacked (I don't think I allowed much space or time to get much of a charge bonus), and even with the -2 morale penalty inflicted by the monks and charge bonus, the end result was victory for the Yari Ashigaru, having 26 men left.

With the added spear bonus against cav, the SuperYA shreds any cav unit of similar cost with ease and negligible losses.

1000+ for a single unit is high for a 10,000 koku game, but I think the point is clear: if you inexpensively upgrade the inexpensive YA unit, it quickly exceeds the role intended for it and becomes "super," unbalancing an already borderline Rock, Paper, Scissors arrangement in 1.02 (muskets being another culprit, but one that is checked to most players' satisfaction by the 4 max rule).

***

EDIT: Ran another 1 unit vs. 1 unit test, this time between:

YA H7w3a2 costing 848 koku, vs.
No Dachi H5w1 costing 943 koku

The H5w1 is probably the most common variant used for NDs that I've seen in STW/WE/MI MP.

Same setup as before, flat, fine day, realism on. The No Dachi lost, having 1 man left, which fled. The YA had 15 men left.

These costs are more in line with what you'll typically spend on average for infantry units. Again, the souped-up YA wins in a situation where it really shouldn't when considering the YA role in a medieval Japanese army.

EDIT2:

YA: H7w2a2, costing 790
WM: H3, costing 770 (note the big diff. in cost between H3 and H4 monks)

Same controls in place. WMs fought to the last man; YA won with 33 men left.

[Togakure]

Shambles m8, I confess I have some issues with participating unless you are unable to get enough players. First off, I tend to shy away from formal competitions. Second, I feel silly competing because so many players are fairly new to Shogun MP, and I would have an unfair advantage given that I've played a bit of MP for a while now. If you end up with 7 peeps, of course I'll play to enable the tourney to proceed. But I think it might be better for me to wait until the next tourney or two in order to allow for the new players to get some games in and get warmed up. I don't want to give anyone the impression that I'm the "bully" or "big fish in a little pond" type (I can't stand folks like that, personally). I would certainly like to observe some of the tourney battles though!

[Togakure]

Part of being a successful MP taisho lies in being clever on the battlefield. Part lies in developing good control techniques (how to use the game's controls quickly and effectively in the heat of battle). But a big part of succeeding lies in what units you select for your army, and the honor levels and upgrades applied to them. This depends a lot on what stat is in use, but as this tournament will be using 1.02, I thought it might be helpful to share my observations about units for folks who might be new to STW MP.

Here's a general breakdown of units and honor/upgrades that I've commonly seen over the last year and a half or so, playing 1.02 online:

Naginata Cavalry: H3-H4 (4 being most common; don't see a lot of wep or armor upgrades). Easily the most popular of the assault cav types because of its balanced speed and high base morale.

Heavy Cavalry: H3-H4 (3 being most common; don't see a lot of wep or armor upgrades). Slower and less manueverable in a pinch, they have better defense and armor than the other cav types.

Yari Cavalry: H3-H4 (4 being the most common; don't see a lot of wep or armor upgrades). Fastest, best against other cav types, but lower base morale. Not used nearly as much as Nag cav, but often used well by cav-savvy players as anti-cav units (they get the spear bonus inherent in Yari).

Cav Archers: H0-H1 (0 being the most common; don't see a lot of wep or armor upgrades). Primarily used for harrassing flanks and chasing down routers. High cost precludes upgrading them as it doesn't yield a commensurate gain in (melee) performance. Ranged performance improves only marginally with honor increase. can be used to lower opponent morale by circling to flank or rear after the main line engages.

Yari Ashigaru: not usually allowed because of the "Super" ashi probem described earlier.

Muskets: H1-H3 (2 being the most common). Sometimes an armor upgrade (of 1) is used. Honor beyond H4 doesn't seem to affect musket ranged effectiveness very much. Those who emphasize the ranged war often bring H3 or even H3A1. I don't like spending that much on musks, but that's just me.

Arquebusiers: rarely used because they become useless in rain, unlike muskets (which are significantly less effective, but still fire and inflict a morale penalty on targets).

Samurai Archers: H0-H1. Though they will often outshoot musketeers in the early stages of a ranged exchange, they eventually run out of ammo (while musketeers very rarely do). They melee much better than musketeers, but not when up against most other troop types. Again, ranged ability is not significantly improved with honor upgrades beyond H1, so koku is usually better spent elsewhere.

Yari Samurai: H5-H6 (6 being the most common; often see wep and armor upgrades). A staple in any army for their anti-cav capability. Higher honor is needed because of their low base morale (lower than 5 and they tend to run before doing their duty). Probably the widest variation in commonly used combinations (h5w2, h5w1a1, h6, h6w1, h6w1a1). I even use H7a1 or H7w1 in a very unusual army from time to time (these cost a fortune, so they aren't usually practical).

Warrior Monks: H3-H4 (3 being most common; H4 is expensive; don't often see wep/armor upgrades because of high cost). Monks seem underpowered in 1.02 given their cost. Most players Ive seen use higher honor No Dachi with weapon upgrades instead. Note: monks have been improved and are more commonly used with the 1.03 and 1.05 stats.

No Dachi: H4-H6 (5 being the most common; often see weapon upgrades). No Dachi are the shock troop of choice for most. H5, H5W1, and H5W2 are very common. H4 are used by some, working well as flanking units after the main line has engaged. H6 are expensive so are not seen that often, but I've seen some players use them.

Naginata: H3-H4 (4 being the most common; occasionally see weapon upgrades if H3 is chosen). Naginata infantry are slow, and their base morale is low. Their defense is good, and thus a few players will use them when intending to remain relatively stationary and grouped together, particularly if they are on high ground. Note: the Naginata infantry unit's base morale is doubled in the 1.03 stat, making them much better. They aren't used that often in 1.02.

Kensai: H0-H1 (don't often see upgrades because of high cost, maybe an armor upgrade if being used as a gen; Kensai have great stats anyway so ...). I've seen many veteran players scoff at the Kensai unit, but I've also seen many vets use them as a general to good effect. Some wily coyotes will attempt to hide them amidst their No Dachi units (they are red like the No Dachi). At H0-H1 starting honor, it's not unusual to see them gain 1-3 honor points during the battle, because they kill so rapidly. Kensai do get shot by guns rather easily if targeted.

Battlefield Ninja: rarely used. They can be seen moving, and despite their superior combat ability, that they only have 12 men in a unit usually spells their doom once they're detected. Occasionally used on maps with a large percentage of forested area.

***

Generals: this is a matter of style really. I would say the the majority bring Nag Cav gens in 1.02. You'll see Heavy Cav gens too. Some bring Yari Samurai gens because it's hard to kill them with cavalry. On rare occasions you'll see a monk or no dachi general, but I love to shoot these ... . Kensai gens are occasionally used. Using musketeers or archers or cav archers as generals doesn't make a lot of sense because the last thing you want is for your general to flee when the going gets rough, and these units have low base morale. Because they are so slow and have low base morale, Naginata infantry are usually used as gens only when defending and fairly stationary (they tire rapidly due to their heavy armor when moving a lot).

***

What combination of units to use really depends on the map, whether your attacking or defending, and your style. The majority tend to bring balanced armies with at least 4 foot ranged units (muskets in 1.02). With infantry, the ratio between Yari Samurai and shock troops (monks and no dachi) varies greatly from player to player. Usually most bring at least 2 Yari Samurai as anti-cav units, unless they are intending to rush. If rushing, they often use Yari Cav instead. Nag Cav are by far the most popular assault cavalry, but you will see Heavy Cav and Yari Cav too. Cav archers seem popular, but are often poorly used. Usually you will see up to two units in an army. Some don't bring any, and bring a couple of archer units to complement their 4 musketeers instead (a powerful ranged war setup). On rare occasions you'll find players that bring 3 or more cav archer units. Those that are good with cav archers can wreak havoc on an opponent lacking the right counters ... .

Cav dominant or all-cav armies are usually only used by those new to MP. It's rather easy to counter them if you're careful. I've only encountered a couple of people that could control all-cav armies well and win with them with any consistency. If a map is fairly flat and lacks tree cover (IB, Totomi), then having more cav than usual can work well. Overall however, balanced armies, fine-tuned to a map, do best in my experience.

***

All that being said, experiment and discover what works for you. I just share this information because sometimes it's frustrating when you're new and keep getting defeated time and time again. Knowing the general ranges of honor and upgrades for the troop types can help a lot in designing effective armies, which is the first step to succeeding as an MP taisho.

[Drisos]

Sound great to me, but I don't know if I stand a single chance against guys like Toga. The reinstallation of my internet at home is slowed down AGAIN, it'll come next week at monday, would that be too late?

Hi Rabidgibbon, welcome to the .org, i see you're still a junior member while you're active for a while, if you'd like to become full member soon, you can try introducing yourself to KukriKhan in the thread: 'Hail New Members (introductions)', which is in the entrance hall.

Welcome TheWingedVictory! I wish you a nice stay at the .org, for the tech. part, you should ask someone else, I'm a tech. disaster.