Peek at RTW:BI

[Camp Freddie]

Someone posted this link at the COM:

EDIT - NO SCANS - Cat

It's not much but still...

I think it sounds good. I like the 'new historical events'. Moving population around could be cool too.
MTW:VI seemed way too generic, simply, "Off you go, here's some Vikings to beat up if you want".

I guess religion will play more of a part too, since the Roman Catholic Church had been set up by the time of the barbarian invasions. It'll be interesting to see how this is handled.

[Dark_Magician]

Death to the capita.. err roman pigs! Rob the robbers! All barbarians - unite!

a missed a "mongol invasion" to stir things up in the middle. Yeah, some 12 full stacks of units appearing in the middle would definitly offer a challenge

[econ21]

Sounds excellent - from the subject matter, this must surely be a much more substantial expansion than MI and even VI. If we get to playout the decline and fall of Rome on the RTW strategic map, it would be more like a new game than an expansion.

[marcusbrutus]

Looks like they'll be tieing up a few loose ends and completing unfinished work with the expansion pack.

[sunsmountain]

Grrrr. Night battles. That should have been a default feature in the main game. Oh well. If they make the AI moddable, or they can prove the AI is better, i'll perhaps buy it.

[Puzz3D]

I wonder what kind of machine you need to get 10 fps for that picture.

[tibilicus]

Looks good. I wonder if Romw will actually be able to do anything other thand die i.e actually win in this game......

[Conqueror]

I hope they fix the big bugs we have now, so it might actually be worth buying. The whole barbarian invasion thing just sounds boring, I would have much preferred a campaign for Alexander's conquests and/or the following wars of his successors

And it doesn't matter if the romans can't win, they've turned christian so they've lost most of their appeal anyway

[Red Harvest]

Sounds excellent - from the subject matter, this must surely be a much more substantial expansion than MI and even VI. If we get to playout the decline and fall of Rome on the RTW strategic map, it would be more like a new game than an expansion.

Considering that the base RTW has a single campaign/period, BI has a lot of ground to make up. And the problems with RTW run deeper as well. This looks more like the missing half or RTW than an expansion pack to me. VI had a completely new campaign map and campaign in addition to its updates of other three campaigns on the normal map.

I have to agree with others that the barbarian invasion phase historically is less interesting to me than Alexander, etc.

[Craterus]

Look's good, but Alexander would have been cool too but remember Alexander died 60 years before Roman Empire and it kinda loses the theme if you were to add him in. Unless you are talking about a historical campaign?

[tibilicus]

Ye bring back the historical campaigns! C.A people if your there bring them back please !

[econ21]

Considering that the base RTW has a single campaign/period, BI has a lot of ground to make up. And the problems with RTW run deeper as well. This looks more like the missing half or RTW than an expansion pack to me. VI had a completely new campaign map and campaign in addition to its updates of other three campaigns on the normal map.

I think the single period deficiency for RTW is offset by the fact that the different factions in RTW have more character than those in MTW - especially in terms of army styles. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect the rise and fall of Rome to be covered in a single game (esp. with half-yearly turns!). I don't feel short-changed by the scope of RTW - certainly it covers much more ground than STW. I'm hoping CA do smuggle in some different starting periods to RTW, as they did to STW in the MI add-on. But I rather suspect what I'll value most in the expansion is the patch to the existing Imperial campaign. That was certainly for me of MI and VI. I can hope though.

I have to agree with others that the barbarian invasion phase historically is less interesting to me than Alexander, etc.

Well, tastes differ but personally I find the fall of Rome fascinating. Did anyone here ever try the old boardgame "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" by the Wargames Research Group? It was multi-player, but was fun with the barbarians colluding to break through the frontiers and then squabbling over the gains. I'm a rather defensive player and really like it when the AI comes gunning for me, so if they were to make trying to hold the Empire a real challenge, it would be awesome. A big if, I admit, as the Vikings in VI and the Mongols in STW were not as scarey as they could have been. The huge stacks of Mongols in MTW were pretty neat though.

[Puzz3D]

Considering that the base RTW has a single campaign/period, BI has a lot of ground to make up. And the problems with RTW run deeper as well. This looks more like the missing half or RTW than an expansion pack to me. VI had a completely new campaign map and campaign in addition to its updates of other three campaigns on the normal map.

I have to agree with others that the barbarian invasion phase historically is less interesting to me than Alexander, etc.

I would have prefered Alexander as well. However, CA can't seem to figure out how to make the phalanx work effectively with this battle engine, so an add-on based on Alexander's campaigns would be quite problematic. Also, CA would have to go to turns of much shorter duration for a game about Alexander's campaigns, and there is no way the game engine could handle even a small fraction of the number of troops involved in Alexander's battles.

[Divinus Arma]

Great job on posting his. Thank you!

[Bhruic]

I wonder what kind of machine you need to get 10 fps for that picture.

Probably almost any machine will do, as that's likely part of the new intro movie. I mean, how psyched were you when you saw the opening to RTW, only to find out you'd never actually have that many units in a battle?

Bh

[Red Harvest]

I think the single period deficiency for RTW is offset by the fact that the different factions in RTW have more character than those in MTW - especially in terms of army styles. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect the rise and fall of Rome to be covered in a single game (esp. with half-yearly turns!). I don't feel short-changed by the scope of RTW - certainly it covers much more ground than STW.

I do feel short changed in RTW with respect to periods. In RTW we effectively have one period vs. three in MTW. I don't see the variety of units, because everything is happening in the earliest phase. The game is effectively over before signature units take the field even in the early period. I don't see much difference in terms of army composition style between RTW and MTW--in both you have major "culture types" with shared units. In MTW you have more region & culture specific units, rather than just culture/religion specific ones.

How could CA miss out on doing a detailed "early Rome" period and map with Etruscans, Samnites, etc.? A rise of Epirus (ala Switzerland or the Mongols) as a regional force would be interesting. It is just a shame. Looks like CA got limited by the number of factions, etc. I can understand not wanting to step back all the way to Alexander, but making a more regional map about the time of the Samnite wars seems obvious. RTW screams out for at least three major campaigns before the barbarian invasion: early Roman expansion into all of the italian peninsula, Rome of the Punic Wars, Rome around the time of Marius.

[Diadochoi]

there is no way the game engine could handle even a small fraction of the number of troops involved in Alexander's battles.

Other than some artificially inflated Persian armies at Guagamela and Issus, I'd say the army sizes aren't significantly different than what the Romans dealt with (and thus what is represented in the game)

[Rubber Ducky]

There is a simliar at topic at twcenter with a few more screenshots :

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index...howtopic=28530

Note the original post with the link to the source. It was pulled down very quickly. Personally, after been bitten by CA, I am very cautious where others are proclaiming (and assumed) it would fix the current bugs.

I suspect it is a hoax by some crazy goon to spread misinformation and raise false hopes. That's why the source site is pulled down so quickly, by CA I presume. The screenshots can be edited with existing RTW, and the campaign map (terribly blurred) with the UI looks exactly like what we have now.

Well I wouldn't want to leave out the possibility that it is legit, since it looks good on paper. From now on I'll be keeping a close eye on CA's promises/features for BI, if when I need proof and decided to be the next "boycott" campaign leader against CA's products Anyone care to join me?

[screwtype]

Mr Simpson did not mention the three magic words I'm waiting to hear: "Improved battle AI".

I have a sense we're not going to get it. They are going to fiddle around the edges and add a new map and campaign - which any modder could achieve - along with yet more chrome. "New traits"! Oh yeah, I'm so hanging out for more V&V's.

They're not going to fix the battle AI because most of the schlubs who bought RTW think the game is great already, so they won't be wasting their time trying to please the more demanding gamers.

But if they've taken the easy way out again and just resprayed the paintwork instead of fixing the engine, I might have to start looking for a new means of locomotion.

[Puzz3D]

Probably almost any machine will do, as that's likely part of the new intro movie. I mean, how psyched were you when you saw the opening to RTW, only to find out you'd never actually have that many units in a battle?

Bh

And how many people do you think are going to believe that's a picture of the intro movie? Come on, most are going to think it's playable, and that's what CA's marketing department is counting on. I want to know what kind of machine is needed to get 10 fps, 20 fps and 30 fps for the scenario pictured when actually playing the game.

[Puzz3D]

Other than some artificially inflated Persian armies at Guagamela and Issus, I'd say the army sizes aren't significantly different than what the Romans dealt with (and thus what is represented in the game)

Take away the inflated figures, and the game still can't handle it. Alexander had about 40,000 troops. The game can't handle it. The game can't handle the battle of Cannae which was the subject of a History Channel Decisive Battles Program using the RTW engine. There is clearly a conscious effort being made to make the game appear to be able to do things that it can't.

[lars573]

Well on RTW heaven I saw what looked like someone leaking info and screens of B.I. It was a link to another forum and it was gone in 3 hours. This leak named new factions, new features, new units, and had some screens to back it up.

[Brutus]

And it doesn't matter if the romans can't win, they've turned christian so they've lost most of their appeal anyway

Maybe it's contrary to popular belief, but many of the invading Barbarians were Christians too...

[Marcus Maxentius]

I think some of those pix are scanned from materials handed out at business conventions, thus are not for the general public to see until they go in a regular magazine or you read about it on gamespy.

[lars573]

Yeah the screens I saw looked like scans. And they had some kind of logo plastered all over them. But what came through clearly was the western (red) and eastern (senate purple) Roman empires. Plus the Saxons, Franks, Alemanii, Vandals, Goths, and Sassanids.

[Colovion]

I've said it and I"ll say it again.

That picture blows. It looks like peasants showing up to see fireworks, not a savage tribe of foreign conquerers raping Rome.

I mean I know I"m supposed to suspend my disbelief when I play games, but don't show me a square and tell me it's a cube.

[Viking]

The link at top says that ALL factions will be given new units and tech trees.

I would really liked to see that in real life!

@Colovion

True enough. It looked like those peasants came from Carthage, not germania.

[lismore]

Hi

What happens if you have modded the original game?

[Diadochoi]

Take away the inflated figures, and the game still can't handle it. Alexander had about 40,000 troops. The game can't handle it. The game can't handle the battle of Cannae which was the subject of a History Channel Decisive Battles Program using the RTW engine. There is clearly a conscious effort being made to make the game appear to be able to do things that it can't.

You don't want to handle 40,000 troops in this type of game, you'd be using the pause button so much it would cease to be RTS. Not to mention the camera would be impossible to use on a battle line miles long.

I'm perfectly fine with the way they scaled it down to maybe a 30,000-40000 large historical army being represented by 2000 in game units (at least on huge unit size mode).

[Suraknar]

I guess religion will play more of a part too, since the Roman Catholic Church had been set up by the time of the barbarian invasions.

Ahem, The Roman Catholic Church as we know it only got established at 1023 AD.

Hardly existing by the Hun Invasions.

The First Established Church of Christiandom was the Christian Orthodox Church, which was established after Emperor Constantine made the Christian Faith the Official Religion of the Empire at 327 AD.

All the way up to the Event which is known as the "Great Schism" of 1023, and separated the Catholic Sect from the Orthodox Church and made it a Church of its own based in Rome.

The Orthodox Church of Constantinopole continued on with the Patriarch as part of the Byzantine Empire and most of the Eastern Christian World until Constantinopole fell to the Ottoman Turks in the 1300's, and the Orthodox Church became fragmented as the Patriarch seat was transfered to Russia, and the remaining Nations answering to Constantinopole became Autocephale, (self Governing) until today...

Of Cource, the Roman Catholic Church has enjoyed Unity up to today, except Protestantism and Anglicanism which themselvs separated from its authority.

So If we even see anything Catholic in this expansion it would be highly anachronistic and ahistorical.

Thank you