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Thread: Roman flip-floppers

  1. #1
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Question Roman flip-floppers

    Hello,
    someone has probably posted on this issue already, but I missed it. embarassed:
    When one Roman faction (J) signs a ceasefire with a non-roman faction (X), the other Romans (SBS) will do so the next turn. Then the erstwhile fireceaser J (hail ceaser and everything, sir!), having noticed at the end of the previous turn that his bosom buddies SBS are at war with X, will declare war, while SBS will cease fire, seeing that X and J are no longer at war. This can continue for quite a while. I'm not sure how they eventually get out of the loop.
    (That's as clear as an octopus' garden in the shade.) It goes like this:
    =ceasefire
    =war

    Initial state:
    JBSSX
    Turn 1:
    J X
    Turn 2:
    BSS X
    JX
    Turn 3:
    J X
    BSSX

    Is this a bug, an issue, a feature, historically correct, a career diplomat's wet dream, or all of the above?
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

  2. #2
    Grand repeater of bad moves Member Hold Steady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    ehh, huh!?


  3. #3
    Member Member lismore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Peru
    Hello,
    someone has probably posted on this issue already, but I missed it. embarassed:
    When one Roman faction (J) signs a ceasefire with a non-roman faction (X), the other Romans (SBS) will do so the next turn. Then the erstwhile fireceaser J (hail ceaser and everything, sir!), having noticed at the end of the previous turn that his bosom buddies SBS are at war with X, will declare war, while SBS will cease fire, seeing that X and J are no longer at war. This can continue for quite a while. I'm not sure how they eventually get out of the loop.
    (That's as clear as an octopus' garden in the shade.) It goes like this:
    =ceasefire
    =war

    Initial state:
    JBSSX
    Turn 1:
    J X
    Turn 2:
    BSS X
    JX
    Turn 3:
    J X
    BSSX

    Is this a bug, an issue, a feature, historically correct, a career diplomat's wet dream, or all of the above?
    I know what you mean. One roman faction makes peace the goes to war again because the others are at war but they make peace at the time the original faction goes back to war.
    WE WILL RIDE INTO ROME!

  4. #4
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hold Steady
    ehh, huh!?

    A VERY BIG HUH, i think we don't understand it cuz we're dutch

    We do not sow.

  5. #5
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Hmmm... hadn't noticed before, but I have noticed that the Roman factions do tend to make peace and war very diferently at times. I guess I will have to be more aware of this.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  6. #6
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    A VERY BIG HUH, i think we don't understand it cuz we're dutch
    Als je nou leest op een menu in het Hollands gewoon kalfsborst,
    dan denk je bij jezelf, nou, kalfsborst,
    nietwaar aar staat er nou "buste de veau"
    Tja, dan neem je het, hè.
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

  7. #7
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    nee ik haat frans. komt mischien omdat ik er nix van snap, darom kies ik duits niet dat ik daar goed in ben

    We do not sow.

  8. #8
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    chacun a son gout

    I guess I'll try to be a bit more scientific about it, and see if I can figure out a reliable way to reproduce an obviously undesireable result.
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

  9. #9
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Huh

    We do not sow.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    What the **** !


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  11. #11
    Guest Es Arkajae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Look fellas its quite bloody simple.

    When one Roman faction goes to war all the other ones do too.

    However when one Roman faction decides to make peace it is impossible because all the other factions will still be at war in the next turn meaning the one that made peace will just declare war again.

    Its a vicious circle and means that usually once someone is at war with the Romans then they are ALWAYS at war with the Romans and can't make peace.

    Paul Peru the only solution I can suggest is to make an alliance with someone you have just made peace with, by allying with them they will automatically be at peace with all the other Roman factions all in the same turn breaking the cycle.

    One hopes they fix this in the expansion along with many other things.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Ahhhhhhhh ive got it sused now. All those smiles just mesmeriesed me. I just sat and stared at them............


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  13. #13
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    So it seems that some of you understand the concept of the Roman stance flip-flop, and are experiencing it.
    My current urgent question is:
    Should this issue be added to the "Bugs to be fixed in the expansion" thread?

    Here are some smilies to distract the dutch:
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

  14. #14
    Guest Es Arkajae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Peru
    So it seems that some of you understand the concept of the Roman stance flip-flop, and are experiencing it.
    My current urgent question is:
    Should this issue be added to the "Bugs to be fixed in the expansion" thread?

    Here are some smilies to distract the dutch:
    The second last smilie will probably just remind them they have to get to work. Bloody Dutch.

    Anyway yes I would definantly add it to the bugs thread if I were you mate as it certainly is one (unintended consequences and all that) and is something they can possibly fix.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    i hadn't noticed this as a problem in 1.0 (ever, over the course of a full campaign), and haven't played a Roman campaign extensively in 1.2. maybe it's a patch-related issue with the diplomacy system?
    skinner looking for a mod to call home!
    http://www8.brinkster.com/nid649/art.html my personal gallery, 237 pieces and counting.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Try making peace with all 3 roman factions and the SPQR in the same turn, you'll probably need more diplomats but it should work.

  17. #17
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by nidpants
    i hadn't noticed this as a problem in 1.0 (ever, over the course of a full campaign), and haven't played a Roman campaign extensively in 1.2. maybe it's a patch-related issue with the diplomacy system?
    yes it was already in 1.0 and it was very annoying

    We do not sow.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Took me a while to work it out?? But I get it now, can't say I've ever noticed it.

  19. #19
    Robber Baron Member Brutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Es Arkajae
    The second last smilie will probably just remind them they have to get to work. Bloody Dutch.

    Anyway yes I would definantly add it to the bugs thread if I were you mate as it certainly is one (unintended consequences and all that) and is something they can possibly fix.
    Heel grappig...

    But since you think we're all pimps who will be the costumers then? Foreigners!
    Last edited by Brutus; 04-26-2005 at 16:04.

  20. #20
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    he brutus, heb jij de site op zijn nederlands of eh vertaal jij alles

    citaat en zo

    We do not sow.

  21. #21
    Robber Baron Member Brutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Hij staat op Nederlands. Niet erg nuttig, maar je moet wat...

  22. #22
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    ahahahaha grappig waar kan je dat doen

    We do not sow.

  23. #23
    Robber Baron Member Brutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Kijk bij 'user CP' en dan naar 'Change options'. Helemaal onderaan kan je de forumtaal kiezen. Er zijn nog behoorlijk wat opties. Overigens vraag ik me wel af of "orgineel gepost door" wel helemaal goed Nederlands is...

    Just to be polite to the unfortunate people here who do not speak Dutch: I was just explaining where you can change the forum language.
    Last edited by Brutus; 04-26-2005 at 20:29.

  24. #24
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    na i'll leave it on english

    We do not sow.

  25. #25
    Simulation Monkey Member The_Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    jaa ik haab een saaurkraut i meen leederhoosen...


    This is something that should be given some thought in the epansion, if possible, but don't call it a bug. It's a feature to have some political uniteness within the empire, but whether or not it is a desirable feature is open for debate.

    I'd say it isn't, as the Romans are already forced to be allies and as such they will be somewhat politically united nevertheless, and removing that thingy would rid the game of unnecessary diplomatic messages and give some more options for scheming.

  26. #26
    Robber Baron Member Brutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mark
    jaa ik haab een saaurkraut i meen leederhoosen...

    I don't know what language that is...but usual you just eat sauerkraut (Dutch: zuurkool)...unless you like having a cavage down your pants of course.

  27. #27
    Simulation Monkey Member The_Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Damn, it'd would have been so nice to interrupt your Dutch conversation with that but you beat me to getting back to english..

    And yes, it's kinda relieving to have a large vegetable stuffed in one's leather pants.. You should try it

    *cough*

    Back to topic..

    PS The language is probably dutch resembling Siansaksa, as we call it in Finnish. Freely translated it means "Pig's German" or in German "Deutchs des Schwein". You could also call it as Bullshit. Don't comment on my German grammar.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mark
    This is something that should be given some thought in the epansion, if possible, but don't call it a bug. It's a feature to have some political uniteness within the empire, but whether or not it is a desirable feature is open for debate.

    I'd say it isn't, as the Romans are already forced to be allies and as such they will be somewhat politically united nevertheless, and removing that thingy would rid the game of unnecessary diplomatic messages and give some more options for scheming.
    I wouldn't have a problem with it if it worked that way for the player too, but it doesn't. When you are playing a Roman faction, you can make peace with a faction the rest are at war with without having to redeclare war. So it's easy for the player to exploit the situation, get lots of wars going to disadvantage the other Romans, and then make peace so that you don't actually have to fight the wars.

    Bh

  29. #29
    Robber Baron Member Brutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mark
    PS The language is probably dutch resembling Siansaksa, as we call it in Finnish. Freely translated it means "Pig's German" or in German "Deutchs des Schwein". You could also call it as Bullshit. Don't comment on my German grammar.
    Ah, Steenkolenduits!

  30. #30
    A Barbarian Mercenary Member unseen11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roman flip-floppers

    yeah I noticed this to, I also don't like the feature where if you declare war on someone as a roman faction then everyone does. As Julii I declared war on Germania and i immediately looked at the senates policy and they said war with the Germanians weren't in our best interests and we should try to get a cease fire, next turn though all the roman factions declare war on germania and the senate changes its stance to blockading Germanian ports (even though they didn't have any ports)

    I think this feature should be removed and make it that when war is justified the senate will side with you but if not the senate will tell you to get a ceasfire

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