Help the Horde is Coming!!!

[Pompey the Great]

Hi Generals,

I am in my first game of MTW fighting with the Turks from early on a normal setting.

I have knocked out the Egyptians, easy peasy, Byzantine bit of a struggle,
and some central european smaller powers, I hold Palestine to Hungary on the map. With less than 2000 florins in the Royal Bank of Rum.

I continue to be assailed by massive Spanish Crusader Armies in the South and the French in Central Europe. I keep knocking them over but they keep coming.

This has checked my advance to world domination. I have had some epics battles and have been stretched to the limit, now my empire is contracting, but am holding on. All my money goes on units to keep me from being overrun so I cannot develop any new Tech.

Now the real trouble is the Golden Horde is only a few years away by all accounts. A war on a third front I can do without, Whats gonna happen?

I mainly fight with missile men, Turcoman Horse Archers, some Saracen Spears, Ghulam Cavalry, Ghazi Infantry, Desert Archers & some Mercs, Vikings, Russian Spears, Javlins.

Will the AI be kind to me, it's not so far, it's put up a real fight of it.

What can I expect from the Horde, what sort of an an enemy will I face and what Tips do you have to get the better of them if your playing the Turkish faction?

Thanks in Advance

Cheers

C

[ShadowMagnet]

It all depends on how large your forces are in Georgia and (God forbid) Khazar. In my last Polish campaign Horde's starting forces amounted to app. 5000 troops. Playing Turks, if you can spare around 3000 men to counter them in Georgia, why not give it a shot? There is a fair chance they will go towards Poland, Livonia etc. if you maintain heavy garrisons in Georgia.
If, however you have taken many lands in the east and are spread thin in that part of the map - pack up and retreat to Georgia where you can hope to make a good stand.

Tactically they are not an easy enemy to fight against. Your HA, no matter how good, are not a good answer to the Horde because Mongols are highly mobile on the battlefield and have LOTS of Mongol Warriors (foot archers with very decent melee stats and high discipline albeit no AP attack). Toe to toe any cavalry units you might have are not a smallest patch on Mongol Heavy Cav. I have seen my Boyars backstabbing those guys, while they were being pinned down by AS, and still get creamed. Funny, huh?
I generally advise lots of armoured spears, some fast flanking units to wrap around their forces and some decent valour AP foot skirmishers to shoot anyone in the melee. And have some reserves handy.
Expect heavy casaulties.

In my experience dealing with Mongols is a lot easier when in command of Catholic armies (heavy armour, crossbows, lots of spears). I am by no means great at tactics however so you're welcome to whoop their backsides with Turks in my stead.

Good luck!

[DisruptorX]

Ghazi Infantry! Tie their horses up with spears and then send in your armour piercing. You will take many, MANY losses. Also, horse archers can fight mongel horse archers, but just keep in mind that your men are inferior in that case.

Some of the best battles I had against the mongols were with the turks. And I agree with the above: if you can, retreat back to Turkey.

[PittBull260]

well being constantly attacked by crusades, and now the humounges armies of the golden horder comin....you're fu*ked

[ajaxfetish]

Something I've heard too, is that they tend to come in fewer numbers if there aren't as many troops around the areas they usually appear (always Khazar, sometimes another territory or two nearby). I'm not certain that's accurate, and if not someone can correct me, but you may actually be better off leaving Georgia without any troops, keeping your huge counter armies back in Trebizond or Armenia the turn or so before they arrive and then move back to defend Georgia the next year. You may be able to avoid going to war with them immediately, too. Anyway, have fun!

Lot's of good archers, preferably xbows if you can make them yet for their horse archers and to soften up the others, the best spears that you've got for their heavy cavalry, and the best heavy cavalry you've got for their foot soldiers. I've yet to master Ghazi tactics but if you've got them figured out they could help a lot. I'll assume you haven't teched anywhere up to where you can build Janissaries what with your military vs. tech problems. Pity.

[ichi]

Grab Kiev and hold it with spear-type troops, Saracens backed up by missiles.

I try to hold Georgia using lots of Turcoman HA and Ghulam Cav, followed up with Saracens and Ghazis.

Once they appear they may attack at first in numbers you can handle. Be sure to do a good job of reinforcing and bolstering provinces each year. Don't start a fight with depleted units.

If the Horde starts to break you down you can fall back on the N and fade away into the desert, let the Horde calm down before returning. Raze the buidlings in the provinces before you abandon them for additional income.

Lots of Assassins can reduce the quality of the Horde Generals - since stars translate into morale this can be crucial.

ichi

[Pompey the Great]

Generals,

I don't know whether to to laugh or cry, at least I have a little more time than I thought, if they appear 1230 on the dot?

I am about 1190 so I might have some time to turn things around.

If I can tech up by then and get the invincible Janissaries I might stand a chance.

At what date do these troops become available?


Also the river crossing bridge battle sounds good to make a stand. Which province does this happen in?

To Summarise....

So if I catapult the Khan, assassinate the top generals, desert rebellious Khazar, retreat laying waste scorched earth tactics, use spears and AP troops, and fight from a hugh mountain covered in a dense forest with a massive army I might get lucky. Fingers crossed, the next few years sound tough.

Thanks for the advice here's hoping or read Pittball's scenario.

So it's back to face another Crusader Army do they ever ease up?

Cheers

C

[English assassin]

Also the river crossing bridge battle sounds good to make a stand. Which province does this happen in?

From Kazar into both Kiev and I think Crimea IIRC, but you can find out by getting the province info screen open for Kazar and then putting your cursor in Kiev. The info screem will tell you what terrain the attackers will have and if there is a river.

Depopulating the provinces the horde emerges in does reduce their numbers quite a bit.

If you can hire any pavise troops are mercs they are real horde killers.