Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Timothy McVeigh just spontaneously got up and blew up a building without any religious influence?Originally Posted by Proletariat
The Catholic IRA are a terrorist organisation which seems to escape excommunication.
The KKK do hate crimes and call themselves Christians while prancing around burning crosses wearing pillow cases on their heads.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Gawain, and you say Jag's stuff is biased!
How about a real historian's anyalisis that obviously doesn't hate Muslims? Who is this guy?
Besides, everything has to be taken in historical context. It was normal for people of all religions to take female captives, and to execute their captives, etc. It would be like humans centuries from now, when they live in a utopian, paridise of peace, looking back on Bush's ordering the war in Iraq which killed innocents and condeming all Americans as being barbaric.
And what about Abraham? What sort of person would willingly kill his son? The Bible is hardly very peaceful. Jesus was the exception, not the rule to Christian's leaders in his peaceful message.
Also, that author seemed to forget how tolerant Muslims were of other religions during many times in their history, especially Jews. Far more so than most Christian nations of that time. And of course that Islam spread far more advanced philosphy and medicine and culture through out the world, including the West...
And Gawain, to me, they are practically the same. They all stem from Judiasm, and the Koran incorprates a lot of the same stuff. They all believe in one God, and both Muslims and Christians view Jesus as an important person (admidetly they don't give him the same rank, but still). Compared to some of the other religions of the world, they are very similar. It's just different takes on essentially the same dogma.
edit: Pape, the whole thing when their in Egypt, and God comes and gives plague and kills a whole bunch of people is what I think he's talking about.
Last edited by Steppe Merc; 04-30-2005 at 00:11.
"But if you should fall you fall alone,
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home."
Grateful Dead, "Ripple"
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Only too Christains. Muslims are taught he is merely a prohpet and both are the founders of their religions and these religions are based on what they did and said. The comparison is totally valid.Hmm ... I am not quite sure if a comparison of Jesus and Mohammed is really valid as Jesus (according to Christian beliefs) is the son of God while Mohammed is a Prophet.
You dont need the Qu'ran. Just look at how the religion was startded and the actions of those who started it. One is a religion based on peace the other on war. One by a pacifist the other by a general and murderer. One who would rather die than hurt another the other to kill those who oppose oe oppress them. You want to cherry pick through the New Testament be my guest as thats the only text that applies to Jesus and Christains. Bring it on. Ill give you a hand the best your going to come up with is Revelations.True - but as those who claim that Islam is a violent religion tend to freely pick their "favourite" sections of the Qu'ran - why shouldn't people who chose to bash Christianity claim the same right?
Proletariat I take it you arent a christain. Jesus came to absolve mankind of original sin. He was the messiah . It seems god decided to forgive man and sent his son to show man the word and the way to heaven. He was no longer a god of vengance. It was all fortold in the old testament and thats why thats included in the bible.Why God changed his mind so arbitrarily on this is one of the many bizarre contradictions I can't reconcile with this faith. It's as if he had a son, popped a valium, and then decided mass floods and plagues were poor evangelistic tools and decided to go with altruism.
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Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
If and only if based on historical arguments. I do not take theological claims of superiority.
I thought I have stated that the climate in which Christianity and Islam were born are extremely different. Christianity was born into an age of one state: Rome, rules above all. The Bible, written by later followers, were filled with hateful indirect attacks on Rome, but shows no real teachings to fight against them simply with one reason: they can't. Instead, Jesus taught about tolerance and, rather, hope for a better afterlife reflects the hopelessness of the search for self-sovereignty by Jewish society in that situation. Islam, on the other hand, was born into a political vacuum and into a tribal, nomadic society in a fragmented and dangerous lands. This presents both opportunity and danger, in which to grab it the religion needs to be aggressive and uniting.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Actually one was founded by a carpenter come prophet, the other a merchant come prophet, and Mohammed's military skills are highly debatable. Propaganda existed back then, and no one is going to follow someone who when the fight, can't even achieve a glorious victory and keep in mind the times, the Eastern Roman Empire and the Persians had been in an almost continuos war for a long time. Your religion of peace was far from it, regardless of the intentions of its founders, any group, given the resources to become powerful, will use them. The Roman Empire didn't become peace loving pacifists under and after Constantine. The lesson here is powerful people will use anything to their own advantage and the bible and its equivalents are the literary version of statistics, they can be used to prove anything, and support almost any position.
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Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Yet some talk of the ten commandments as they appear in Exodus, not as they are in the New Testament. Many, many, others quote the Old Testament when it is to their advantage and it fits their cause.
So peace-loving...
"Joshua then pronounced this oath, saying, 'Cursed before the LORD be anyone who tries to build this city — this Jericho! At the cost of his firstborn he shall lay its foundation, and at the cost of his youngest he shall set up its gates!' So, the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was in all the land." (Joshua 6:26-27)
"Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Stretch out the sword that is in your hand toward Ai; for I will give it into your hand." And Joshua stretched out the sword that was in his hand toward the city. As soon as he stretched out his hand, the troops in ambush rose quickly out of their place and rushed forward. They entered the city, took it, and at once set the city on fire. So when the men of Ai looked back, the smoke of the city was rising to the sky. They had no power to flee this way or that, for the people who fled to the wilderness turned back against the pursuers. When Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city and that the smoke of the city was rising, then they turned back and struck down the men of Ai. And the others came out from the city against them; so they were surrounded by Israelites, some on one side, and some on the other; and Israel struck them down until no one was left who survived or escaped." (Joshua 8:18-23)
"The total of those who fell that day, both men and women, was twelve thousand — all the people of Ai." (Joshua 8:25)
Yatta, yatta, yatta. I could quote Joshua ad infitum.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
No based on the theological teachings of each religion.If and only if based on historical arguments. I do not take theological claims of superiority.
You see you have to go back before Christianity.Yet some talk of the ten commandments as they appear in Exodus, not as they are in the New Testament. Many, many, others quote the Old Testament when it is to their advantage and it fits their cause.
Really. Were things that different back then? I guess thats why Kerry and the Democrats lost.Propaganda existed back then, and no one is going to follow someone who when the fight, can't even achieve a glorious victory and keep in mind the times
No It didnt. I guess Attila was a myth. Rome never ruled the known world or even came close.Christianity was born into an age of one state: Rome, rules above all.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
In which you, like me, already possess a bias thanks to our reliance on one religion's morality. That will bring no real picture, in my opinion, unless, of course, basic humans like us could throw away the entirety of our (one religion-based) morality for a while to see a neutral picture.
Attila the Hun was 400 years away from that age; the difference of a Rome in decay for a throng of reasons and Rome at its proudest moment , Augustus' reign, was immense. I'm sure you know Augustus was one of the greatest leaders of any empire ever. He literally created an entire empire, though practically inherited a framework of hundreds of capable men and institutions especially his late uncle Gaius Julius Caesar. Then, he turned this "inheritance" into an empire covering much of the world known to the Romans, and the Jews. The Jewish community did not see anyone who could possibly defeat Roman occupation of the known world at the time. So the cause for "freedom" was hopeless, and returns to my argument.
The Parthians did not count, for Rome was on the expanding side on all borders (although also stabilized in Augustus' time), and the Jews could care less who were the Parthians, at the time.
Edit: Indeed, what difference could it be from the eye of a Jew, in which all he could see ever was Romans ruling here and there. He did not see the northern German forest, nor did he see the splendid Parthian capital on that popular site of capitals on the banks of the Tigris. He did not have the knowledge of the true situation and size of the world as we now know. From this perspective, I'm certain I'm right that Rome was all-powerful from his eyes.
Last edited by AntiochusIII; 04-30-2005 at 02:05.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Well I agree that Rome was hardly all powerful... but they did certiantly control Jersusalem.
And Gawain, Revalations is really messed up, that's for sure... I know it wasn't Jesus's thing, but having a huge war where most people end up burning in hell isn't very peaceful...
In addition, a lot of things were left out. I'm willing to bet some post Jesus scriptures had violence in them. Likely not involving Jesus, but a lot of stuff was censored out. Not sure about the Koran's creation, so I can't say if that was the case there, or not.
Um, about the Parthians, I'm pretty sure some Jews served them... and the Romans didn't "defeat" the Sarmatians yet. But yeah, they were at their peak.
Last edited by Steppe Merc; 04-30-2005 at 02:03.
"But if you should fall you fall alone,
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home."
Grateful Dead, "Ripple"
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
That war is still to come. Revelations is an apocalyptic text.know it wasn't Jesus's thing, but having a huge war where most people end up burning in hell isn't very peaceful...
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
I should have said that passage was meant in a sarcastic manner...
Oh wait, your's is too isn't it...
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Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Are you seriously equating Timothy McViegh's or the KKK's influence with Al Qaeda? In the US McVeigh is regarded as a despicable lunatic and the KKK is laughed at even by 'rednecks.' A politician having links with either would be butchered unmercilessly in an election.
Now tell me in what regard you think bin Laden is held in Iran or Syria or Pakistan.
Oh, but I guess all religious cultures are like that. I must just be looking at it through my American rose colored glasses.
Last edited by Proletariat; 04-30-2005 at 06:47.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
It was the Egyptian first-born that suffered the wrath of the Jewish God. The Bible did not cite a story where Ra killed the Hebrew first-born.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
It seems to me that Osama had a rich dad, Timothy not, hence the difference in PR abilities.....
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
It's got nothing to do with 1940-45.
Read Deuteronomy 7:1-5 or 20:15-18. Then come back and say 'oops'. Mind you, this isn't some Jewish prophet speaking, it's the Jewish God himself: 'And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.' Disgusting little character, this Jaweh. And there's more if you can read, want to read, want to understand.
But nah, let's just be nasty about Mohamed, let's abuse Rodinson's superb biography of the man to heap manure onto all Arabs. And if anybody complains, we'll start whining: 'Oh, but your Yurpeans are doing the thame thing againth uth poor innothent Americans all the time!...
Blegh. Grow up.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Well theres a good chance he was recruited by Radical Islam.Timothy McVeigh just spontaneously got up and blew up a building without any religious influence?
[IMG]#
Congressman sees Mideast tie to bombing
Wants FBI to answer questions or face Capitol Hill hearings
April 20, 2005 © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
On the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, a Republican congressman planned to ask in a House floor presentation last night why the FBI ignored strong evidence of a Middle East connection to the attack that killed 171 Americans.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher of California, chairman of the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, says if the FBI does not provide satisfactory answers to his questions, he will call for congressional hearings.
The congressman's request is based on the decade-long investigation by reporter Jayna Davis, presented in The Third Terrorist: The Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing, published by WND Books.
In the carefully documented book, Davis asserts Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were not the lone conspirators but were part of a greater scheme involving Islamic terrorists and at least one provable link to Iraq.
Full Story in World Net Daily
#
Was Iraq Behind the Oklahoma City Bombing?
FOX NEWS April 19, 2005 By John Gibson
On Tuesday's show you heard FOX News' Rita Cosby talking about the quite shocking claims made by a group of victims' families that Iraq was at the bottom of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing in Oklahoma City.
Theres tons of this stuff in the old testament. The God of the Jews was a vengeful one. No ones denying that. But those things told Jews about history not to go out and keep killing people in the name of god if they dont convert. Islam calls for holy wars and taxes on the unbeliever and taxes on them to this day. Also you cant find anything concerning christains on this matter.Read Deuteronomy 7:1-5 or 20:15-18. Then come back and say 'oops'. Mind you, this isn't some Jewish prophet speaking, it's the Jewish God himself: 'And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.' Disgusting little character, this Jaweh. And there's more if you can read, want to read, want to understand.
This has come up before: A reporter named Jayna Davis has a book out about it.
The whole thing stinks of Iraq. Ramzi Yousef, an Iraqi agent that was involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and his associates were allegedly talking to Terry Nichols in 1994 about how to build a fertilizer bomb.
So now the question: So if there is all this evidence, why has the U.S. government ignored it?
Full Story [/IMG]
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Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Well theres a good chance he was recruited by Radical Islam.
What have you been smoking lately Gawain ?
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Come on this has been known since the whole thing started.What have you been smoking lately Gawain ?
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
I think the 3 main Reasons in order for the Middel Eastern Terrorism is as follows
1) Poverty
2) Oppression
3) Religeon
Islam was a reasonable peaceful religeon before the crusades but afterwards it became very aggressive and hasnt really moved on very far since but while it plays a role it doesnt on its self make terrorists = proven by the fact not all Muslims ARE terrorists.
the MAIN problem is the majority of the Arab nations have been oppressed for the last 2 centruies either by their own or European rulers which has lead to a HUGE margin between the poor and the Wealthy in these countries. The poor have no power, no money, no prospects. This makes them angry at the world in general - so why Angry at the West? because most of their problems are routed here - we took what we wanted from them and then cut them loose when it became too much trouble to hold onto them and then we flaunt what wealth we have everyday through the Media - its like teasing a starving dog with a Steak - eventually its going to bite you
Last edited by Sir Moody; 04-30-2005 at 16:51.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Damn I wish we had a sarcastic laugh icon.Islam was a reasonable peaceful religeon before the crusades
What do you call reasonabily peacefull?
It was started by war and spread by the sword. The only reason there even were Crusades was to take back lands they had conquered.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
You know, reasonably peaceful. Like the reasonable peaceful Christian God that is refered to on those hundreds of billions of dollar bills that all say "In God we trust" that buy the weapons that furnish the most powerful national killing machine in history that is run by a reasonably peaceful Christian nation - the United States.
That kind of reasonably peaceful.
After all, a fleet of B2s loaded with Christian nukes is far, far more peaceful that an RPG loaded with Muslim explosives.
Isn't it?
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Oh its nice to see you acknowledge that god is on our sideYou know, reasonably peaceful. Like the reasonable peaceful Christian God that is refered to on those hundreds of billions of dollar bills that all say "In God we trust" that buy the weapons that furnish the most powerful national killing machine in history that is run by a reasonably peaceful Christian nation - the United States.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
You and the rest of the neocons, and neocon supporters sure wish you were a theocracy.I forgot we are a theocracy
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
One thing im not and thats a neocon. I suffest you look this all to bandied about phrase up and see whom it applies too.You and the rest of the neocons
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
When i said Reasonable Peaceful i ment that Religous wars were quite rare (when compared to say Europe at the same time) and intolerance to other religeons was low - the wars still happened of course but Religeon usually didnt play apart - they were the land and resources type...
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Power-mad, bitter leadership.
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
They were all wars to spread Islam .To say that the Europeans fought religous wars against eachother at this time is disengenous. At this time there was no reformation and all these countries were cathloic. I submit all wars are the land and resources type...When i said Reasonable Peaceful i ment that Religous wars were quite rare (when compared to say Europe at the same time) and intolerance to other religeons was low - the wars still happened of course but Religeon usually didnt play apart - they were the land and resources type...
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Question Number One children: What famous world leader campaigned with the slogan "What would Jesus do? before invading Iraq and exercizing some heavy-duty military muscle?Oh its nice to see you acknowledge that god is on our side
"Yep, no Christianity present. Move along folks, nothing to see here."
Unto each good man a good dog
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
Your usual disjointed attempt at making a point. Did Bush campaign on the slogan What would Jesus do as regards invading Iraq? Or was that on some other topic or are you refering to the fact that he prayed to god for guidance, heaven forbid?What famous world leader campaigned with the slogan "What would Jesus do? before invading Iraq and exercizing some heavy-duty military muscle?
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: What Is The #1 Contributing Factor That Leads To Muslim Terrorism?
I'm not disjointed at all, I've a got a beauty rolled up and tucked away waiting for me after dinner.
Methinks you would have a hard time disassociating Bush and his Conservative Right following from Christianity and it's impact on their politics. Bush played the Christian card at every opportunity and used Christianity as a political tool both for change and for keeping things the same.
Unto each good man a good dog
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