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Thread: Epirus

  1. #1
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Epirus

    hi there,

    I see there ha sbeen a lot of disagreement on the forum about Illyria thrace and Dacia. Illyrians will be mercs, and Dacians and thracians seem to be difficult to separate..how about adding Epirus and remove thrace (divided up under Dacia and Thrace.

    agree? disagree? why/ why not?

  2. #2
    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Epirus

    the kingdom of epirus came to an end in the 3 century bce
    the thracians had their kingdom long after that and of course the dacians
    so in what year the mod begins ??
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

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  3. #3
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    well, wasnt Phyrrus in 280BC? so if Phyrrus si there, epirus shoudl be there, right? or did i ( and RTR) mis the time/date?

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Combining Thrace and Dacia is not good, as they were very different. Thrace was a diadochi (sp?), remnant part of Alexander's empire, and thus had some phalanxes (and heavy cavalry to some extent), but also in combination with some more "barbarian-style" weapons, for example some falx-like scythe weapons I believe. Dacians on the other hand were never conquered by Alexander and thus never implemented the phalanx, but used the sword formations that the forest areas of middle and western europe had been using since the time of the first celts in Europe, WAAAAAY back. However, it's believed that these swordsmen learnt some tactics/technology from roman deserters and thus altered there fighting style somewhat to look more like the legion in some ways (however I haven't heard anything of pila or similar). When Trajan conquered Dacia the Dacians had some men equipped with long swords and some equipped with the wonderful falx. They also had onagers (technology presumed to come from roman deserters), and their cavalry isn't mentioned much. Because the Dacians had sarmatians and others as allies at the time, that doesn't reveal much about the cavalry, as almost any cavalry would have looked futile in comparison to the sarmatians (and therefore not mentioned in any texts), I assume. EB team probably knows more than me about the Dacian cavalry... Anyway, my point is that Thrace and Dacia have completely different fighting styles from 280 BC to year 0.

    Besides, if you'd make Epirus a specific faction, then the rest of "Greek cities" wouldn't be much of a faction as Pyrrhus of Epirus was probably the most active Greek warlord at the time. As long as faction number is so limited the "Greek cities" is probably the best sollution, just like you have to make the gallic tribes "Gaul" and the German tribed "Germania" etc.

    BTW, will the falxmen in EB be extremely armor piercing? I read that the falxmen forced the roman army to alter their helmets because, I assume, many legionarries got their half their heads pulled off by the falxmen.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 04-29-2005 at 18:54.
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  5. #5
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    yeah, your right.
    i just read this at www.rometotalrealism.com and wondered EB's position on this.

  6. #6
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    What was said in the RTR forums? In order to state my position, I must understand what has already been said.
    Cogita tute


  7. #7
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    they just say that Epirus will take the faction slot of thrace. and Dacia is named 'Thraco-Dacians' so, khev. your early for a friday

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    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Epirus isn't taking the faction slot of Thrace. Illyria and Graeco-Bactria are taking the faction slots of Britain and Thrace. What we're going to do with the Greek Cities is still uncertain.

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    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    EB spends an incredible amount of time researching each faction and putting together unit lists, and so on. We have begun unit work on all our factions. It is too late for us to make any changes to our faction lineup, at least for the forseeable future.
    Cogita tute


  10. #10
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical
    Epirus isn't taking the faction slot of Thrace. Illyria and Graeco-Bactria are taking the faction slots of Britain and Thrace. What we're going to do with the Greek Cities is still uncertain.

    -Simetrical
    I believe you would go with the current setting as the unified whole and re-evaluate that jewel idea you yourself brought up for a possibility in 7.0, right? Could you predict if there is a possibility that this idea will be instated, even as a sort of beta (just like current 5.4.X ZOR system) in 6.X?

  11. #11
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    simetrical. i'm sorry. i didnt read enough. it was a RTR side-project.not 6.0

  12. #12
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    Combining Thrace and Dacia is not good, as they were very different. Thrace was a diadochi (sp?), remnant part of Alexander's empire, and thus had some phalanxes (and heavy cavalry to some extent), but also in combination with some more "barbarian-style" weapons, for example some falx-like scythe weapons I believe. Dacians on the other hand were never conquered by Alexander and thus never implemented the phalanx, but used the sword formations that the forest areas of middle and western europe had been using since the time of the first celts in Europe, WAAAAAY back. However, it's believed that these swordsmen learnt some tactics/technology from roman deserters and thus altered there fighting style somewhat to look more like the legion in some ways (however I haven't heard anything of pila or similar). When Trajan conquered Dacia the Dacians had some men equipped with long swords and some equipped with the wonderful falx. They also had onagers (technology presumed to come from roman deserters), and their cavalry isn't mentioned much. Because the Dacians had sarmatians and others as allies at the time, that doesn't reveal much about the cavalry, as almost any cavalry would have looked futile in comparison to the sarmatians (and therefore not mentioned in any texts), I assume. EB team probably knows more than me about the Dacian cavalry... Anyway, my point is that Thrace and Dacia have completely different fighting styles from 280 BC to year 0.

    Besides, if you'd make Epirus a specific faction, then the rest of "Greek cities" wouldn't be much of a faction as Pyrrhus of Epirus was probably the most active Greek warlord at the time. As long as faction number is so limited the "Greek cities" is probably the best sollution, just like you have to make the gallic tribes "Gaul" and the German tribed "Germania" etc.

    BTW, will the falxmen in EB be extremely armor piercing? I read that the falxmen forced the roman army to alter their helmets because, I assume, many legionarries got their half their heads pulled off by the falxmen.
    but they where the same tribe

    it was the Dacian people of Thrace

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  13. #13
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    What? Was the people led by Decebalus the same people that Alexander conquered and hellenised? Is there something I've missed? The dacians are several people, probably the same as those called Getae by the greeks, which were a different tribe than the thracians, whom the greeks called thracians, as far as I know.
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    Not Just A Name; A Way Of Life Member Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    The Dacians are indeed the Getae, but they were part of the "Thracian" people. The Thracians that you refer are those of the Odrysian kingdom, which was much more hellenized those of the Daci....even before the time of Alexander.



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  15. #15
    Dungalloigh Brehonda Member Ranika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Many of the more Hellenized Thracians were dead or run off by this point. The kingdom of Tylis, established by migratory Celts from Gaul, had taken much of the land of the more Hellenic Thracians, and, as I understand it, what remained were Thracians that were much closer in culture (though, still not identical) to the Dacians. Tylis still employed some native tactics and soldiers, but most of them had been killed or had fled, probably into Macedon or Dacia.
    Ní dheachaigh fial ariamh go hIfreann.


  16. #16
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    I believe you would go with the current setting as the unified whole and re-evaluate that jewel idea you yourself brought up for a possibility in 7.0, right? Could you predict if there is a possibility that this idea will be instated, even as a sort of beta (just like current 5.4.X ZOR system) in 6.X?
    This isn't really the right place. Ask on the RTR boards over at TWC.

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  17. #17
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm
    The Dacians are indeed the Getae, but they were part of the "Thracian" people. The Thracians that you refer are those of the Odrysian kingdom, which was much more hellenized those of the Daci....even before the time of Alexander.
    Yes, that's what I meant.

    When was the Tylis kingdom created?
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 05-02-2005 at 08:59.
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  18. #18
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Should Thrace really be a faction? I mean, it lost its last great king Lysimachus (a Diadochi) to Seleucus I Nicator in battle in the year 281 B.C. Then, Ptolemy, brother of Ptolemy II Philadelphos, who took up the throne of Thrace, was killed a few years after. Thrace, in fact, ceased to be a seperate faction in the year 269 B.C.

  19. #19
    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    Should Thrace really be a faction? I mean, it lost its last great king Lysimachus (a Diadochi) to Seleucus I Nicator in battle in the year 281 B.C. Then, Ptolemy, brother of Ptolemy II Philadelphos, who took up the throne of Thrace, was killed a few years after. Thrace, in fact, ceased to be a seperate faction in the year 269 B.C.
    lysimachus's kingdom was a macedonian kingdom (of one of the diaduchi) in thrace , not a thracian kingdom !
    the real thracian kingdom was that of rhoemetalces III who died in 43 ce and of his father cotys IV and of his father sadalas II and his father rheskuporis and so on

    don't forget that caesar intended in 44 bce to cross into thrace against the thracians and the getae
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

  20. #20
    Member Member cunctator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    When was the Tylis kingdom created?
    The celtic kingdom of Tylis was founded in 278BC and disapeared after 212BC, when they were defeated by thrakians.

  21. #21
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Epirus

    wouldnt really make it a mentionable faction...

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