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Thread: Unit Concept/ Research

  1. #1

    Default Unit Concept/ Research

    This section of the forum is where we will discuss units to include in the mod. These units will then be listed against there factions. This section we will need to research in depth.

    I suggest that we look at this in two individual section
    1- Middle age units (comon units across faction_
    ie knights, crossbow men, peasants etc.,

    2- Unique units
    ie Scottish Schiltrons , English Longbow etc.,
    Last edited by ShadesWolf; 05-01-2005 at 08:51.

  2. #2

    Default Re: UNit List

    here i give you...

  3. #3

    Default Re: UNit List

    wow, pretty good

  4. #4
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UNit List

    ive already been looking today, how do i get picyures on my posts?
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  5. #5
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: UNit List

    Schiltrons - Scottish Pike men, they should be able to go into a hedgehog-like circle, with all their pike pointing out.
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  6. #6

    Default Re: UNit List

    to get pics on your posts you need to host them
    use something like www.imageshack.us
    then in the post type
    [img][/img] with the url inbetween

  7. #7
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: UNit List

    I think that they also had gunpowder by this time, did they not?
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  8. #8
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    They did in the battle of Towton in the War of the roses
    Vote For The British nationalist Party.
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  9. #9
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Pavise Handgunner:
    Vote For The British nationalist Party.
    Say no to multi-culturalism.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    intresting, the only problem with this is, How to implement

  11. #11
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Other mods have mad fire-arms. We could just ask to use their thingy, and change the models.
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  12. #12
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    The English army

    Most English armies of this period were made up of vast numbers of Longbows.(Which I assume most of you already know)

    Below I will detail a few historical notes, for use to discuss

    Until the 17th century there was no such thing as a standing army in england. The campaigns of the 14th and 15th century saw the raising of temporary armies which were disbanded on the completion of operation.

    An archer served in one of these armies by either having been conscripted into the Levy, raised by 'Commission of Array' or recruited into a Retinue of a member of the nobility or gentry in a force raised by 'contract of indenture'

    The Commission of Array

    The CoA was a lagacy of the feudal obligation whereby every man between the ages of 16 and 60 was to serve his country in the time of need. Counties were assessed as to the number of men they were to supply and arrayers toured their respoctive counties selecting from the manpower assembled at various designated muster points.

    The Contract of Indenture

    Contracts were drawn up between the king and his chief commanders which stipulated the size of the army required, its purpose and the terms and length of service.

    Depending on the number needed, the commander would supplement the men of his own indentured retinue with subcontracted men from other nobiliyt or gentry. (this can get complicated so I wont go any further than to say these armies were kind of the lords household and leave it as that)

    The Levy

    In the 14th century CoA and CoI were used in combination to raise armies for service in Wales, Scotland, Flanders and France. However after complaints by parliament CoA were only allowed for service in England, Scotland and Wales.

    therefore, throughout the 15th century every army that left England to serve aboard was raised entirly by contracts of indenture. However it must be said that not every levied archer was mobilised to serve in a field force. The duty ofarrays north of the river trent was to remain on stnadby ready to repel any scottish incursions

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    So from this we can see that we will need two types of soldier for each, ie a levied and a retained one and after 1400 only retained should be fighting in mainland europe. Except for units/soldiers recruited from the natives, ie Gascony etc.,

    OK now its time to discuss
    ShadesWolf
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  13. #13
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    After my 2nd year exams in june i'll be happy to help you Shades with hisitorical research as this period of history is my favourite as you probably know already

  14. #14
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Thanks BkB all help is welcome
    ShadesWolf
    The Original HHHHHOWLLLLLLLLLLLLER

    Im a Wolves fan, get me out of here......


  15. #15

    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    ok, if people could post the concept pics here, maybe our skinners could get started

  16. #16
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Based on the fact that all armies will be made up of a number of unique factions units and common units, how many units should we allow do you all think ?
    ShadesWolf
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    Im a Wolves fan, get me out of here......


  17. #17
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    well, lets say each faction gets around 15 units in total, maybe a bitty more. I wuld say that each faction should get at least a quarter or so of them to be unique units. Some should have more, perhaps many more.
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  18. #18
    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    I think that we should try and avoid having any general units apart for the Men-at-Arms class. I think this element kind of ruined M:TW, as you could be fighting an almost identical army apart from maybe one unique unit. Armies were general very different, especially in the late medieval period. Even the lowliest of foot soldiers armed themselves differently (the French foot soldiers armed themselves with glaive like pole arms while the English preferred Bills and the Burgundians liked their pikes). I understand that wars were fought primarily by the men-at-arms class who were similarly armed (English, French and Burgundian anyway). But most auxiliary soldiers were unique to their country. Even the thin geographical divide between England and Scotland created huge differences in military culture , and it was the same between France and Burgundy.

    Here are a few suggestions for artillery. At the suggested start point of this mod, gunpowder artillery was becoming well and truly established as the standard form of artillery (by about 1330 anyway). Both the French and the English adopted gunpowder artillery very quickly into their arsenals. Here is a suggested artillery list for the main factions:

    England
    - Bombards (heavy cannon for siege work
    - Demi Culverins (light cannon for field work, too weak for sieges)

    Burgundy
    - Bombards
    - Demi Culverins
    - Serpantines (extremely light cannon for field work, anti-personnel)

    France
    - Bombards
    - Demi Culverins
    - Serpantines
    - Culverins (well balanced cannon ideal for both seige and field work)

    It is important that the French get an advantage in artillery, especially latter in the game. This was one of the reasons why the French eventually won the HYW. They began to use artillery as efficiently (thanks to lawyer from Paris) as the English had used the longbow.

    Also, I am not sure about Scotlands uses and preferences towards artillery, so I left them out for someone more learned to fill in .

    These are just some suggestions what does everybody think?
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    t"his was one of the reasons why the French eventually won the HYW"
    did they actually win, i didnt think anyone won at the end, the brits got pushed out of most of france, so i supose maybe they won
    but the brits still have the channel islands something the french never got back

  20. #20
    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Getting the English out of France (apart from Calais and the Channel islands) is general speaking considered a French conclusion to the war, as English territorial claims were the instigating factor of the war. Also the French conquest of Aquitaine, which had been English territory for about three centuries was a significant gain for the French and a crushing final blow to the English's French ambitions.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  21. #21
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unit Concept/ Research

    Take a look to the flanders thread to see some picture and unit suggestions.
    Note: these are suggestions!
    Last edited by Moros; 05-24-2005 at 19:09.

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