Doctor Who

**English assassin** · 06-13-2005, 12:08

Got to be the Master surely? Only another Time Lord could help daleks survive a time war?

I like the way the series intially felt like a collection of episodes but it is sort of being linked together. Though rather than having all this time war business resolved i guess we are going to be left with a humongous cliff hanger which will be a bit annoying. But, alas, I am now with SA's post above: there is a bit too much running about with guns and fancying the assistant to feel like "real" Dr Who. This is especially bad since with the Captain Jack character (who I think is good) there is someone else who can do all that if its really necessary for the plot. "Real" Dr Who has a sense of humour (whether he knows it or not), he is a bit of a dillitante looking for fun, though he can be relied on to be on the side of the good guys. Ecclestone Dr Who is a Time Lord on a mission. Threatening daleks is naff.

Got to love Russell Davies though, who else could take the mick out of a shedload of bad TV shows and get a bisexual character onto Dr Who (and no one minds)

**The_Doctor** · 06-18-2005, 20:42

The last episode was very good, if a bit odd.

So Rose was the Bad Wolf. But why was she called the Bad Wolf?

**The_Doctor** · 06-18-2005, 22:30

There is going to be third new series and two christmas specials.

Billie Piper will be in it and the Cybermen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/drwho...16/20015.shtml

**Mikeus Caesar** · 06-19-2005, 11:20

Eheheh, that last episode was good and scary enough to make one member of my family hide behind the couch....my dog. He's only 6 months old, and he was happily walking about in front of the telly, occasionally stopping to watch it, when suddenly the scene where the Dalek army comes out of the spaceship started, and he jumped back startled, before whining and running behind the couch. Once we had finished watching Dr. Who, we had to drag him out from behind the couch. Poor thing was terrified, but it was so funny...

**Captain Fishpants** · 06-20-2005, 08:49

I take it that people know about this?

www.badwolf.org.uk

**The_Doctor** · 06-20-2005, 09:28

I take it that people know about this?

Oh yeah, It kept me awake for a few nights while I tried to work who or what was the bad wolf.

It was a great idea to include the whole Bad Wolf thing in the series and on the internet. It made it more interesting.

There is also:
http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/
http://www.geocomtex.net/

The second one is very good. Bad Wolf is in code all over the place.

Argentum Ordnance
Node Stabilised (Lupus and Nocens variants)
And on the support page. Morse Code

**English assassin** · 06-20-2005, 10:55

SPOILERS BUT ITS BEEN BROADCAST SO PRESUMABLY THATS OK

I thought the last episode was a bit lame I'm afraid. The daleks survived the time war by, err, surviving, essentially. The Doctor spent the whole episode trying to save the day through cobbling together a machine in the very worst star trek style ("lets connect the transfibulator through the quantum discombobulator and solve all the episodes problem in the last two minutes by pressing a button".) I was hoping we might get the in joke of reversing the polarity of the neutron flow but not even that. And then, even worse, getting rid of the daleks through what was literally a deus ex machina ending. I'm sorry but it was lame.

And, Bad Wolf? that was a good idea to tie the series together and make a bit of mystery, and it meant WHAT? ROSE was putting bad wolf everywhere as a cosmic post it note to herself ??? And how did she go from "bad wolf" to "Hey, Rose. Use a tow truck to pull a panel in the tardis open look inside and become a god for a bit" I mean, the last person that did that was turned into an egg, it wasn't obviously the way to destroy half a million daleks was it?

The dalek attack was cool to watch though fair enough.

Still, I'm glad the cybermen are coming back.

**The_Doctor** · 06-20-2005, 11:05

I mean, the last person that did that was turned into an egg, it wasn't obviously the way to destroy half a million daleks was it?

Margaret Slitheen, the person who got turned into an egg, wanted a new beganing, that is why she said thank you just before she was turned into the egg.

So, the TARDIS read Rose's mind and took her back to save the Doctor. I suppose the TARDIS would want to save the Doctor as well.

**The_Doctor** · 06-20-2005, 11:27

And then, even worse, getting rid of the daleks through what was literally a deus ex machina ending. I'm sorry but it was lame.

What about when Daniel Jackson evolved on Stargate SG1.
Or when Major Carter got taken over by a machine.
Or O'neill with the alien knowledge that let him control some wierd looking things that destroyed the Gu'auld fleet.
Or Captain Sisko becoming a profit on Star Trek: DS9.
Or what ever happened on Earth: Final Conflict (which I did not watch much of).

Sci-Fi is full of that type of thing happening.

And it is lame every time it happens.

**English assassin** · 06-20-2005, 14:06

Margaret Slitheen, the person who got turned into an egg, wanted a new beganing, that is why she said thank you just before she was turned into the egg.

So, the TARDIS read Rose's mind and took her back to save the Doctor. I suppose the TARDIS would want to save the Doctor as well.

You see, this must be why I am not a time lords assistant. I can picture it now:

"A BEER? The Doctor is dying trying to save the earth from Daleks 200,000 years in the future!"

"Its not my fault. The Tardis must have read my mind..."

Originally Posted by Martinus

What about when Daniel Jackson evolved on Stargate SG1.
Or when Major Carter got taken over by a machine.
Or O'neill with the alien knowledge that let him control some wierd looking things that destroyed the Gu'auld fleet.
Or Captain Sisko becoming a profit on Star Trek: DS9.
Or what ever happened on Earth: Final Conflict (which I did not watch much of).

Sci-Fi is full of that type of thing happening.

And it is lame every time it happens.

Yes, it is lame. And there's no excuse. No one makes the writers develop a plot with some totally all conquering indestructable alien fleet that they then have to invent a previously unheard of weapon/whatever to get rid of. It doesn't move anything on or develop any of the characters. If Rose had had to choose between saving the Doctor but dying because of all that time stuff, or staying in 2005 and having a normal life, at least there would have been some drama. Or, I don't know, if she had had the power to destroy the daleks but decided it would be wrong to use it or at least wrestled with whether she should (after all she was the one who wanted to be nice to the dalek in episode 6, how come she suddenly got all genocidal on us, where was that bit of character development?)

Its just bad drama which is shame because some of the development of, say, the doctors character has been quite good. I had the feeling they just rushed into an ending.

Plus (although I don't especially care about consistency if it gets in the way of a good story) we now have the fact that the Tardis can turn people into a god if it likes, which ought to make future plotting a bit more difficult. "Oh no, the cybermen are going to take over the galaxy" "Never mind, have a look under that panel, become all powerful, destroy them, somehow lose all your powers by kissing me , I'll do a bit of regeneration and it will all be OK."

Rubbish. If it had to end with a fight they should have had a huge fleet of time lord ships mysteriously appear and blow them up, leaving us all waiting for series two to find out what actually DID happen in this time war, or anything other than the ending it did have IMHO.

**The_Doctor** · 06-20-2005, 14:19

"Oh no, the cybermen are going to take over the galaxy" "Never mind, have a look under that panel, become all powerful, destroy them, somehow lose all your powers by kissing me , I'll do a bit of regeneration and it will all be OK."

The Doctor would run out of regenerations.

The whole thing was just to kill off a Doctor. He did give his life to save Rose, which is drama, I think.

after all she was the one who wanted to be nice to the dalek in episode 6, how come she suddenly got all genocidal on us, where was that bit of character development?

But this time the Daleks where trying to kill the Doctor and everyone on Earth. The first time she met the Dalek she did not know about them and how evil they are.

**TonkaToys** · 06-21-2005, 08:47

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

I take it that people know about this?

www.badwolf.org.uk

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before.

EA is right that the ending was a bit weak and rushed... obviously RTD had an plan right from the start about the Bad Wolf thing, it was just a shame he wasn't able to come up with something more original.

I thought they might harken back to the Dalek with Rose's DNA and maybe link that to the Dalek Emperor... Dalek Emperor - whatever happened to Davros?

Looks like RTD has set himself up with lots of inconsistencies that he'll hope we forget for the next series.

**econ21** · 06-22-2005, 23:33

I must say, I warmed up to this series a lot as it progressed. It may even be the best series of Dr Who ever. (Although I still have a rose-tinted admiration for Tom Baker's first series, the stories revolving around the ark in space.) Partly it was the acting. I've always admired Christopher Ecclestone's work but took a little time to get used to him - perhaps that was ok, as he is supposed to be alien and therefore rather cold or odd in some ways. I'm pretty deflated now that he's gone. Billie Piper was just great - up there with Sarah Jane Smith as a "real" character you could identify with. And I was sad to see Captain Jack left behind. Like EA, I found the campness worked amazingly well (but then I also found Queer as Folk pretty jaw-dropping).

I also liked the way the series gradually built on itself. Seemingly standalone episodes like Dalek or the one with Rose's father actually were pivotal in developing the characters and the story. I was hesitant about the 45 minute format, but on reflection it may have been a better way of telling a story than the old 4x30 minute episode story format.

The standout story for me was the "Empty child". The first episode was terrifying - "Are you my mummy?" still brings out goose bumps - while the concluding episode brought it all together in a more satisfying way than any two parter sci-fi story has done. It was so warm and uplifting, it almost brought tears to my eyes:
"20 years to the invention of rock and roll. You're going to love it!"

I guess the main attractions, as an adult viewer now rather than a kid cowering behind a settee, are the mocking contemporary references and smart writing. I've probably mentioned it earlier, but the early scene with the Doctor watching the alien spaceship in London on TV and fighting for the remote, and to listen over the sound of the gossip, was just brilliant. Starting off the penultimate episode with the Doctor in the Big Brother chair uttering "You've got to be kidding me!" was an example of the unique strength of this series and one that would have been inconceivable in any future incarnation.

Like other posters, I did not like the fantasy elements introduced in the final episode. It seemed creatively cheap and like something from a third rate magna film. But the whole thing was kept afloat by the fact that by then you cared enough about the characters and in my case, emotional engagement could allow me to overlook the plot flaws.

For once I agree with the Daily Mail, best British series currently on TV. Except now it's not.