Who did more to help the Allies win WW2 Fance or Austrailia?

[Redleg]

Well we all know why - Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom, and China are on the Security Council.

Austrialia is represented by the United Kingdom on the Security Council because if my memory serves me correctly Austrialia is still a member of the British Commonwealth.

Now France on the other hand - I to have always wondered why they were given a seat on the Security Council. It might have been done because of the East-West tension that immediately started after WW2, and France was seen as a western ally that would always vote against the communist block - and this was mostly true given the nature of the fighting in the French Colonies.

[ShadesPanther]

thats basically it. So The soviets were outnumbered 3:1

and Australia and New Zealand are members of the commonwealth.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Austrialia is represented by the United Kingdom on the Security Council because if my memory serves me correctly Austrialia is still a member of the British Commonwealth.

Ah I thought that might be it but it sort of sucks then. Austrialia is in reality a free and seperate nation is it not?

Akso I apologise to my Canadian friends out there as they also should have been incuded in this post and the security council IMHO. I guess they were left out for the same reason as Austrailia. The UK is such a confusing entity. He He since Britain joined the EU does that mean Austrailia and Canada are members also?

[Byzantine Prince]

Well, who cares about the stupid ass UN anyways. How many times have you Gawain dissed the UN? Quite a lot, unless I am confusing you with some other conservative.

I wish we[Canada] could opt out and maybe others will follow as well. The UN is a poor excuse for an organization. Instead I hope NATO becomes more powerful then ever.

[Duke Malcolm]

Australia.
All the French did was get invaded. Australia mucked in to fight for the King and Country, for God and the Empire, for Kith and Kin, for Home, and for the Mother Country. They joined the war of their own free will (or so we tell them, but shh, they don't need to know), and fought damned hard.

[King Ragnar]

Australia.
All the French did was get invaded.

The french always get invaded:The Franco-Prussian wars,WW1,WW2. They cant put up much of a fight.
I agree with Byzantine Prince the UN Does suck, the UK should pull out for definate.

[sharrukin]

What do you suppose the result would have been had the British had a long border with the Germans...or the Australians? No nation that had a land border with the Germans could resist them except the Russians, who had a huge military and it cost them 20 million dead. No the French couldn't stop the Germans but then who could? It would not be for many years that any nation had the capacity to do so. If New England had been next door to the Germans in 1939, I think the results wouldn't have been very pleasant.

France has a seat on the UN council because it can field a powerful military force overseas. Power projection is what dictated who got a seat and who got a veto as it makes little sense NOT to give a Veto to someone you cannot enforce your resolutions against.

As a Canadian I am aware that the security council seats were not given out as rewards for dutiful service. IMHO Japan and Germany should also have been given a seat on the security council as well.

[Duke Malcolm]

Security Council seats were given to the winners of the Second World War. Australia didn't get a seat because it is a British Dominion, and was more-or-less represented by the British seat.
France was given a seat for the same reason as China, I think -- they experience the foreign occupation, and they were also a significant international force at the time.

[Adrian II]

The french always get invaded:The Franco-Prussian wars,WW1,WW2. They cant put up much of a fight.

They don't have an island to hide away and wait till Bubba comes to the rescue. I'm glad at least one civilised nation is on the Council. And I wholeheartedly agree with the honourable gentlemen that Britian should withdraw from it. It doesn't have a policy of its own; it can't wipe its own backside without permission from Washington.

EDIt And I do realise this thread is an excuse for French-bashing. If you guys stay sharp, I'll play along - if I get bored, I'm out.

[Redleg]

They don't have an island to hide away and wait till Bubba comes to the rescue. I'm glad at least one civilised nation is on the Council. And I wholeheartedly agree with the honourable gentlemen that Britian should withdraw from it. It doesn't have a policy of its own; it can't wipe its own backside without permission from Washington.

EDIt And I do realise this thread is an excuse for French-bashing. If you guys stay sharp, I'll play along - if I get bored, I'm out.

Now Now - lets not get all testy. At least two of us have not bashed the French on this thread. However it does seem that you have decided to bash the English.

I wonder is the pot trying to call the kettle black again?

[Duke Malcolm]

We didn't hide on our island until the US helped. We defended our shores well. We defended our Empire slighlty less well, but managed nonetheless. Had we been bordering Germany, we would have been relatively successful in defending our borders.

[King Ragnar]

. It doesn't have a policy of its own; it can't wipe its own backside without permission from Washington..

Who do we have to blame for that the French, Maybe we could of held America longer if the French didn't help them in the War of independence.

[Brenus]

The french always get invaded:The Franco-Prussian wars,WW1,WW2. They cant put up much of a fight.
I agree with Byzantine Prince the UN Does suck, the UK should pull out for definate.

Right you are... Three time the French had to face a German aggression, but they are the baddies!!!! The victims of aggression have to be blamed...
Excepted, because that is history, the French declared war to Prussia (Germany was created after the Franco-Germans war), Napoleon II having fallen in Bismark's trap...

The WW1: France was one of the few countries without choice, being attacked by the Germans. The French won the war with their British allies, themselves involved because the British thought that to defend a neutral country attacked without warning is worth to do. The US intervention was a fatal blow for a yet defeated Germany, by a endless supply of men and material...
In Verdun, the German Plan was to obliged the French to fight iron with flesh. They did and they won.

The WW2, the French could have easily not be defeated by not declaring war against Germany when Hitler decided to invaded Poland. Most probably, Hitler will have turn against USSR, and end of the game. To be defeated happens in war and isn't a dishonor. To see and watch is. The French were the only country ready to sent troop to help Finland against Stalin aggression. Because the fall of Finland, these troops were used in Narvik, Never heard about it?
And to add this comment: the British weren't better: The BEF was as much defeated than the French army... Does that make the BEF a bunch of cowards? I don't think so...
The Free French fought alongside the US and UK troops in Africa, in Provence and Italy, providing the break in the battle for Monte Casino (battle of the Carigliano). They even provide one squadron of fighters on the Russian Front (Normandy/Niemen). Plus the french resistance inside France...

So, yes, the French did as much as the Australian and other countries to help to win WW2. Just read Churchill's speech to France after the armistice in 1940. Oh, perhaps you don't trust him. But to be in the front line isn't easy, and only the vast spaces of Russia succeeded to contain the Nazi assault.

UN is what the member states are willing the organisation to do.

[Spetulhu]

The WW2, the French could have easily not be defeated by not declaring war against Germany when Hitler decided to invaded Poland.

Out of interest... Was the French-UK pact with Poland only against German aggression or did they declare war on the Soviets too? Everyone seems to conveniently forget that Stalin had a pact with Hitler and attacked Poland too, taking the eastern areas.

The world would look quite different if the Allies had to fight both Hitler and Stalin.

[Franconicus]

[QUOTE=Brenus]The WW1: France was one of the few countries without choice, being attacked by the Germans. The French won the war with their British allies, themselves involved because the British thought that to defend a neutral country attacked without warning is worth to do. The US intervention was a fatal blow for a yet defeated Germany, by a endless supply of men and material...
In Verdun, the German Plan was to obliged the French to fight iron with flesh. They did and they won.

The WW2, the French could have easily not be defeated by not declaring war against Germany when Hitler decided to invaded Poland. Most probably, Hitler will have turn against USSR, and end of the game. QUOTE]
Sorry, but it is not that simple!