how do I combat squalor

**Camp Freddie** · 05-04-2005, 14:40

"What? I can't hear! What did he say?"

"Err... I think it was, blessed are the cheesemakers"

**SirGrotius** · 01-11-2006, 06:04

Why can't population growth just be a good thing!

**x-dANGEr** · 01-11-2006, 11:38

OR simply adjust unit scale and then pop will be needed in Campaigns.

**Doug-Thompson** · 01-12-2006, 00:11

This topic must be the most difficult management issue in the game, judging by the number of complaints.

Recruit peasants, this reduces population and then send them rebel-hunting, or move them to a town, where there is less population and you want it to grow...

This is true. I was an early advocate of this approach in RTW. However, there are some drawbacks.

For instance, reducing the population can increase your population growth rate. You're not curing the population problem as much as delaying it. That can be OK. It gives you time to complete "happy buildings."

Also, simple math shows that if a 24,000 population and a slight growth rate of 0.5 percent, then building a peasant unit will only offset the population growth, not reduce population.

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Controlling population growth is valid, but easier said than done.

I don't agree with the conventional wisdom of not building advanced farm upgrades. They are important for revenue. Also, fertility temples can be useful. It all depends on the circumstances.

Careful examination of governor virtues and vices is a winner. Of course, you're ripped when he dies. It's not a bad idea to move your governor out of a town every once in a while, check what the "real" contentment level is, then move him back in.

Improving your city walls improves happiness and law.

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Bottom line: Manage all your own cities. Pick that option in the game settings. It's a hassle, but less of a hassle than constantly dealing with revolts.

**Kekvit Irae** · 01-12-2006, 01:15

I avoid building farms, health buildings, and anything else that increases population growth. I set my taxes so that I will get at least 0% growth rate. Then I start building units to get the city to the size I want.
Only the palace buildings tier are population dependant. Once you hit 24000, build the Imperial Palace and then exterminate the populace at your leasuire. The other final tier buildings do not look at the population, but rather wiether or not you have an IP. This way you can exterminate all you want and still build Siege Engineers and Hippodromes with 2000 population, provided you have the IP, of course.

**grapedog** · 08-24-2006, 17:41

me personally i use the revolt method and reclaim the cities. It does take some doing by getting an army up to speed in the area...but I like it more personally then gifting and re-taking, that just seems cheesy and an easy way out. I take the losses with revolts but I feel cleaner afterwards...

i've avoided farms, but the temples themselves usually provide a nice happiness bonus...plus, fertility temples only help getting more children/general produced as well which is nice...so i deal with faster population increases.

I think i'll need to keep a better eye on my generals though for good/bad VnV.

Is there any way to determine what kind of armies will be produced during a revolt. Will a town capable of only the first rank of militia only produce those during a revolt or will all sorts of random stuff pop up including cavalry and whatnot even if that town normally cannot produce such units?

**CountMRVHS** · 08-24-2006, 20:06

Squalor seemed like a much bigger problem in the earliest version. And although it may irritate you to see all those rats in your settlement details scroll, I find that squalor is actually not much of a problem at all for me.

I play H/H, recently patched to 1.5. And although I never used to build farms or pop-boosting temples, I do so now and haven't noticed a big difference. Check the settlement details scroll -- farms can make you a lot of money, sometimes more than trading can in a particular province. Farms are also a basically guaranteed income that won't fluctuate based on diplomacy, like trade will. Keep rebels and enemies off your lands to keep devastation down, and you've got a permanent income. As for the temples, it seems to be the case that the factions who can build pop-boosting temples are able to find use for them -- even as Carthage I occasionally built a temple to Tanit.

I've also always hated the thought of abandoning, then sacking my own city just to reduce the number of rat-icons on my details scroll. That's something I just never need to do. If the city rebels, *then* I take it back and execute the ungrateful wretches. But if my city is operating at blue-face level, let it be!

The fact about squalor is that it will level out eventually if you're patient. Just because your city has 70% squalor doesn't necessarily mean you need to do something drastic. If you're not having riots and your pop growth is proceeding as planned (either increasing or holding steady), then what's the problem? Even Carthage, the classic squalid city, is manageable without resorting to peasant-migration or self-inflicted extermination.

CountMRVHS

**Roy1991** · 08-24-2006, 22:20

Originally Posted by grapedog

Is there any way to determine what kind of armies will be produced during a revolt. Will a town capable of only the first rank of militia only produce those during a revolt or will all sorts of random stuff pop up including cavalry and whatnot even if that town normally cannot produce such units?

AFAIK it depends on the military buildings the town has.
For example, a town with only barracks will only have infantry units (of the level matching the barracks) when it rebels.
If you destroy all military buildings before the town rebels, they'll only have peasants.