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Thread: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

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    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    There has to be something we can do about the AI┤s ability to admitt defeat and act accordingly.
    In my current RTR campaign I┤ve laid all Carthage┤s cities to waist, exterminated the populance, raising every building that┤s destructable and beaten them in well over 40 decisive battles with an average kill ration of 20:1, not to mention all the assaults. They have no fleets and I┤ve raised all their ports. I┤ve killed all family members except three and they keep coming at me with peasant stacks???! and not accepting even a "simple" ceasefire. They shure are hellbent on destruction.
    Now, I can understand that they are pretty pissed of, he he, but I┤ve been trying to get a ceasefire sine turn 1 and now I┤m passing 40 turns but no luck... remeber, they broke the alliance with me and attacked so I guess the AI still thinks he can win???! This is really annoying! Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Shaidar Haran Senior Member SAM Site Champion Myrddraal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Moved to the general forum
    Read my SIG

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    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Quote Originally Posted by PseRamesses
    There has to be something we can do about the AI┤s ability to admitt defeat and act accordingly.
    In my current RTR campaign I┤ve laid all Carthage┤s cities to waist, exterminated the populance, raising every building that┤s destructable and beaten them in well over 40 decisive battles with an average kill ration of 20:1, not to mention all the assaults. They have no fleets and I┤ve raised all their ports. I┤ve killed all family members except three and they keep coming at me with peasant stacks???! and not accepting even a "simple" ceasefire. They shure are hellbent on destruction.
    Now, I can understand that they are pretty pissed of, he he, but I┤ve been trying to get a ceasefire sine turn 1 and now I┤m passing 40 turns but no luck... remeber, they broke the alliance with me and attacked so I guess the AI still thinks he can win???! This is really annoying! Any ideas?
    in my RTR game I had the same situation as you have in your game.
    However in my game the exepted protectorate status
    I too offerd them ceasfire after ceasfire - I wanted to take the greek penninsulla ( sp ) owned by Macedon - but the nI decided to just take a chance and offer the protectorate.
    They of course wanted me to give them all of their settlementr that I had taken from them back - what were they thinking ?! - I refused , knowing that if I would want to kill them later on I would have to wage a major war again, that was not an option.
    So I said become protectorate for 100 K , and they accepted

    But still I get your point , the AI always thinks it can win,when I was sieging the Gallic capital - the last city left - I offerd them protectorate but the diplomat refused giving me the freedom is precies speech...

    I'm an athiest. I get offended everytime I see a cold, empty room. - MRD


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    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
    So I said become protectorate for 100 K , and they accepted
    Did you actually pay 100k to get a protectorate? Well ok, but that┤s a no option out of pure principe for me in this situation since they betrayed me and broke our alliance. What┤s really bugging me is the useless diplomat function that this game has. It actually seems that CA haven┤t even playtested this game to any extent before release and that┤s the most fightning thought of all. This is the reason I posted this prob to see if any solutions could be found.

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    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Did you actually pay 100k to get a protectorate?
    yeah , I knew that they would just give it all back the following turn.

    but that┤s a no option out of pure principe for me in this situation since they betrayed me and broke our alliance
    well I must say , I would not have done it either if they betrayed me

    And by the way I don't think it can be fixed those dipl. probs , probably hardcoded, to bad though, hope they make it better in further projects

    I'm an athiest. I get offended everytime I see a cold, empty room. - MRD


  6. #6

    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    the ai in this game is really agressive, usually if your country lays in their war path they will never stop fighting. I was playing juilii in RTR against the gauls, and twice defeated two massive armies they sent at me, and their empty cities at my mercy. thats about the only time they will offer a peace treaty, and if i do accept, they will come back in one or two turns and declare war again! This also goes for the greeks in the south, but after i beat them off the mainland, the just about forgot about me and signed a peace treaty to concentrate their war on macedon leaving me alone for good.

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    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Smile Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    the map's ai is simply bad , that's it !!!
    it has no basic logic and the sad thing is that we can't do anything about it
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

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    Frustrated would-be modder Member vastator's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Tell me about it - I've had factions down to their last settlement (after I've captured four or five others) saying they're not afraid of my "empty threats"!

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    Member Member sunsmountain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    To get a ceasefire:

    1. Do not ask every turn. Every time they deny gives you a temporary negative modifier on diplomatic deals, which, if you insist every turn is permanent de facto (because you've done it) and enough to offset even the most herioc of victories.

    2. Remove all your spies AND assassins from their lands. They will not accept otherwise.

    3. Have troops on their borders, not in their lands. See 2.

    4. Have recently won a battle against them. Do not save and reload, it is lost if you do.

    5. Your military graph MUST be higher than theirs or they will not except (unless 4. is strong enough).

    6. In addition to offering a ceasefire, make it more attractive by adding trade rights, 100 gold and map information.

    7. If that doesn't work, add "Accept or we will attack" instead of goodies.

    8. I have never had a single war fought to destruction unless i wanted to.
    in montem soli non loquitur

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    Member Member zedar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Quote Originally Posted by sunsmountain
    To get a ceasefire:

    1. Do not ask every turn. Every time they deny gives you a temporary negative modifier on diplomatic deals, which, if you insist every turn is permanent de facto (because you've done it) and enough to offset even the most herioc of victories.

    2. Remove all your spies AND assassins from their lands. They will not accept otherwise.

    3. Have troops on their borders, not in their lands. See 2.

    4. Have recently won a battle against them. Do not save and reload, it is lost if you do.

    5. Your military graph MUST be higher than theirs or they will not except (unless 4. is strong enough).

    6. In addition to offering a ceasefire, make it more attractive by adding trade rights, 100 gold and map information.

    7. If that doesn't work, add "Accept or we will attack" instead of goodies.

    8. I have never had a single war fought to destruction unless i wanted to.

    Yeah, that probably works, but still it is pretty dum to say that they are not afraid of your empty threads, when you have captured all their cities and last is under siege(is it said that way??). They SHOULDnt have a choice, but to become protocrate or ceasefire.

    That AI's aggressive playing style is also stupid, they dont respect peace treaties or allies very much. You might have helped your allie at many places to eg. get settlement, but still you have to had lot of mens in border of your allies, that is stupid.Very stupid.

    Could this be repaired in some future patch or is it too "big" or sumthing?
    'Cause that would be nice.
    'Sic vis pacem para bellum.' -If you want peace, prepare to war.

  11. #11
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Quote Originally Posted by sunsmountain
    To get a ceasefire:

    1. Do not ask every turn. Every time they deny gives you a temporary negative modifier on diplomatic deals, which, if you insist every turn is permanent de facto (because you've done it) and enough to offset even the most herioc of victories.

    2. Remove all your spies AND assassins from their lands. They will not accept otherwise.

    3. Have troops on their borders, not in their lands. See 2.

    4. Have recently won a battle against them. Do not save and reload, it is lost if you do.

    5. Your military graph MUST be higher than theirs or they will not except (unless 4. is strong enough).

    6. In addition to offering a ceasefire, make it more attractive by adding trade rights, 100 gold and map information.

    7. If that doesn't work, add "Accept or we will attack" instead of goodies.

    8. I have never had a single war fought to destruction unless i wanted to.
    So if this method works it means that I have to:

    1. Move all my agents and armies into position.
    2. Defeat them in battle or take a settlement.
    3. Pull all my agents and troops out of their territory.
    4. Offer Protect. or ceasefire.
    5. If refusal repeat 1-4?

    This is absolutely absurd and utterly non-realistic! I do hope the diplo feat is enhanced to the BI release. Why bother constructing and implementing a feat into a game that doesn┤t work properly or as intended?!

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    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Smile Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    There is too much hope on this BI , I guarantee you , the AI won't be a better one !!! Damn !!!
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

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    Could be your God Member Abokasee's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    i wonder if ca is reading this?
    Now with transparent layers!

    Lost on the Internet? Go back to start.

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    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    I hope so , but it is not important , they are the God and we are just ....players
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

  15. #15
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    Quote Originally Posted by caesar44
    I hope so , but it is not important , they are the God and we are just ....players
    Well there has been a lot of CA devs lurking around for a while now so I wouldn┤t give up on them yet Caesar. The sad thing is that a fully working diplo-system could make this game soooooooo good. As it is now its only use is to exchange maps and gain trade rights. It┤s a pity.
    1. Protectorates only work on an initial stage with smaller factions. They attack you, you counter attack, beat them once or a coulple of times and they┤ll accept a protectorate offer 8/10 times. But when attacked by an empire with a large amount of provinces that doesn┤t work either so you beat them, beat them, taking city after city, ruling the seas and.... they NEVER accept a protectorate offer.
    2. Gaining military access? Has anyone ever got that? So let┤s say my ally the Illyrians are at war with Greece and I as the Macedonians are at war with the Gauls. Wouldn┤t it be great if we, as allies, could exchange a military access to pursue our respective enemies?!!! This NEVER works.
    3. Cancel trade rights? So what, there are, 19 other facs to do trade with.
    4. The whole protectorate things is totally wrong since the protectorate can make alliances that dictates your strategy and even ends your wars?!!!

    I do hope that CA-gods has heard the whining, and constant prays of us lesser people regarding this topic and correct this for BI.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    When you compare the diplomatic options in Civilization 3 with those in RTW, Rome is beaten hands down. Having said that, careful diplomacy and planned military action, rather than outright war-mongering, will lead to protectorates and lasting alliances.

    I have often found that allies of factions I have just won a decisive battle against are more willing to become protectorates than the losers themselves. This was the case when I took Rome (and destroyed SPQR), playing Carthage. I had already destroyed the Scipii and the Brutii, and the Julii opted to become a protectorate without a fight. They remained a protectorate until the end of the game and their alliance with Germania made them a useful buffer on my northern border. :)

    Diplomatic arrangements are generally not permanent though, unless you're in a campaign winning position.

  17. #17
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    I still belive that the diplo-system in Europa Universalis II is by far the best ever! CA should by it and implement it in TW4.

  18. #18
    Member Member BobTheTerrible's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AI┤s lack of admitting defeat!

    You could always just offer a protectorate the turn you reload the game. The AI will always accept (somewhere around here is an example of someone winning the campaign without having any battles, because he saved, reloaded, asked for protectorate and repeated for all factions. It's an extension of the load bug.)
    If cockroaches can survive nuclear fallout, then what's in a can of RAID?

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