Foolish

[Franconicus]

What is the most foolish mistake in military history?
Who is the worst military leader of all times?

[Al Khalifah]

Prince William of Orange (1792 - 1849). - a pretty awful commander by anyone's standards and his incompetence was magnified by the fact he was put in command of such a large number of lives at such a pivotal battle in European history. Later became King William II of the Netherlands.

[Franconicus]

Here are some German:

Moltke (the nephew): He soiled the Schleiffen plan completely.
Falkenberg: His Verdun plan was as stupid as can be.
Paulus: Did not havethe courage to withdraw his troops from Stalingrad

Roman: Varus, of course!

But what about single mistakes

[Franconicus]

Look at this story. It seem very foolish to me!

FERDINAND VON SCHILL

The Pre-History of the Rebellion

In 1809 Emperor Francis I., inspired by the vigor of the Spanish popular war, called upon the Germans to rise against Napoleon, while Austria herself took the field. Among those who responded to the call was Prussian Freiherr FERDINAND VON SCHILL. Prussia herself stayed out of the war.

The Military Course of Events

Schill, with a regiment of hussars, left Berlin April 28th 1809, campaigning against French forces (in official terminology, he deserted with his regiment). As Prussia was at peace with France, he christened his regiment a "Freischar" (FREE CORPS). In order not to compromise Prussia, he had to campaign outside of Prussian territory. On May 1st he was in front of Wittenberg (Saxony) demanding the fortress commander to surrender - he did not, as Saxony was a staunch French ally.
Aware that he alone could not hope to defeat the French, Schill had hoped on Emperor Francis I. and on Germany's patriots to answer his call and rise, like he did. On May 13th Vienna surrendered to the French; yet the Austrian army still campaigned.
Schill withdrew to STRALSUND in Swedish Pomerania, where he overwhelmed the weak forces, occupying the city (May 25th) in the name of the Swedish King Gustavus Adolphys IV. (who at that time was under arrest in Sweden). Swedish soldiers and the Ruegen militia joined Schill in his fight. Schill faced a force outnumbering his 4:1; he died while fighting in the streets May 31st. 543 of his men were deported to the galleys, 11 of his officers brought to the city of WESEL, where they were executed.

[GoreBag]

Look at this story. It seem very foolish to me!

FERDINAND VON SCHILL

The Pre-History of the Rebellion

In 1809 Emperor Francis I., inspired by the vigor of the Spanish popular war, called upon the Germans to rise against Napoleon, while Austria herself took the field. Among those who responded to the call was Prussian Freiherr FERDINAND VON SCHILL. Prussia herself stayed out of the war.

The Military Course of Events

Schill, with a regiment of hussars, left Berlin April 28th 1809, campaigning against French forces (in official terminology, he deserted with his regiment). As Prussia was at peace with France, he christened his regiment a "Freischar" (FREE CORPS). In order not to compromise Prussia, he had to campaign outside of Prussian territory. On May 1st he was in front of Wittenberg (Saxony) demanding the fortress commander to surrender - he did not, as Saxony was a staunch French ally.
Aware that he alone could not hope to defeat the French, Schill had hoped on Emperor Francis I. and on Germany's patriots to answer his call and rise, like he did. On May 13th Vienna surrendered to the French; yet the Austrian army still campaigned.
Schill withdrew to STRALSUND in Swedish Pomerania, where he overwhelmed the weak forces, occupying the city (May 25th) in the name of the Swedish King Gustavus Adolphys IV. (who at that time was under arrest in Sweden). Swedish soldiers and the Ruegen militia joined Schill in his fight. Schill faced a force outnumbering his 4:1; he died while fighting in the streets May 31st. 543 of his men were deported to the galleys, 11 of his officers brought to the city of WESEL, where they were executed.

That sounds okay to me, just kind of unglorious.

Douglas Haig was a bit of a wanker. Of course, by "a bit of a", I mean, "a huge". He is quoted as having said "the machine gun is overrated".

Another Scot who should have had more brains or balls is the Earl of Mar, "Bobbing John", leader of the uprising in 1715 (his Chrisitan name eludes me right now). Basically, he raised thousands of troops, summoned the Highland Chiefs to a meeting and garnered their support, then sat around at Sheriffmuir in the hope that the French would send reinforcements. Predictably, they didn't, which allowed the English to raise a suitable army and crush the rebellion.

[Templar Knight]

John Erskine

[Kaiser of Arabia]

One word for worst military mistake ever: Verdun.
Another case could be made for the German Invasion of Belgium in 1914.
And also the Somme was pretty stupid at parts (the British at the Somme that is).
Another quite stupid military mistake had to be the Ardennes offensive.
And let us never forget the British at the Somme. I mean, seriously. SERIOUSLY! HOW STUPID CAN THEY HAVE BEEN!

Oh and for commanders, I'd have to say...
1. Burnside
2. Molkte (nephew)
3. Emannuel Grouchy
4. Ney
5. Zhukov
6. The dude that commanded the Russians at Borodino.
7. Varus

[The Wizard]

Prince William of Orange (1792 - 1849). - a pretty awful commander by anyone's standards and his incompetence was magnified by the fact he was put in command of such a large number of lives at such a pivotal battle in European history. Later became King William II of the Netherlands.

Grmbl -- indeed, he was a fool and almost Greek in his hunger for power. He actually collaborated with the Belgians to spite his father in hopes of gaining a throne!

Also, it seems the number 'II' added to 'William of Orange' spells 'bad luck' in Dutch history. Prince William of Orange (1626 - 1650) was like the later member of his line also power-hungry and quite unable to understand the ways of politics and the division of power in the world of the time. Luckily, he died after three years, before he could do any permanent damage. Unluckily, the Republic fell into the hands of the landsadvocaat Johan de Witt, who was not very well-versed in the ways of war and totally underestimated the danger that Louis XIV posed. We were only saved by Michiel de Ruyter, bless him.

Oh, and how about Buller in the Second Boer War. Hooray for a very poorly executed offensive at Colenso, my fat friend... now make way for Jan Paulus Leroux (no, not a Brit, but a Boer)!



~Wiz

[Pooma]

Townshend, (Wanted to be Townshend of Baghdad). Oversaw one of the longest retreats in British history, and then was inside the walls for the absolute longest seige in British Army history; thought it would make him famous when some other army had to be sent to extract him.

It is interesting to note that at the time the British Army, and the dominion forces trained almost exclusively for the offensive, and were perhaps the most effective attacking (the Germans can claim to have been better overall with some justification) force the world had ever seen.

Many of the WW1 generals were a bit dim but this guy made an art of self promoting cretinry. Also one of his brigadiers died of eating grass.

The Scot in me demands that I vote for Edward II. The man was a total pillock. His father might not have been able to win at Bannockburn either, but then his father wasn't likely to have ever fought there. Unless he was stoned or something. Or someone mentioned that Bannockburn was holding the Scottish Sexeh Goat rally that year. OK, so I don't like Edward I very much, I can't help it. He does bring out the contrast with Mk 2 pretty well.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Hitler: Not snuffing the UK out when he had the chance.
Attacking Russia while fighting the UK.

[Krusader]

General Bernadotte in the French army. Did alot of things wrong, and ignored several orders from Napoleon, which could have ended disasterously sometimes hadn't it been for other skilled French commanders.

Most generals in WW1. French General Jonut/Jounot comes to mind.

Guy de Lusignan perhaps, for marching most of the crusader troops into open terrain, and defying earlier crusader state tactics.

A military mistake, was when six highly experienced Athenian admirals were executed by the Athens Council for allowing some Athenian sailors to drown during a battle. This ment inexperienced admirals and the morale in the navy spiralling due to the executions. Short while later, almost entire Athenian fleet was destroyed at Aigospotami.

Dien Bien Phu. French organization and poor plan of sending in reinforcements.

Fourth Crusade besieges Constantinople. Piss-poor leadership among Greek generals & officers, Greek troops ill-disciplined, low morale & poor training. Byzantine fleet had in addition not been maintained for 8-9 years under Emperor Alexius III rule.
Byzantine Emperors were very quick to flee.

[Petrus]

What is the most foolish mistake in military history?
Who is the worst military leader of all times?

French general gamelin stands among the top as he managed to find himself without any reserve left when the battle started in 1940 wich led to the following disaster.

And marechal petain of course, whose military doctrine corresponded fully to the needs of the battle of verdun in 1916 and to nothing else. Unfortunatly, as he exerced his most important role in the 1930's, this doctrine made france military defeated certain even before the war started in 1939.

[Basiliscus]

The Scot in me demands that I vote for Edward II. The man was a total pillock.

Indeed. The man was a fool. Only English arrogance would try and field heavy cavalry in marshland against a lighter armoured and better equipped Scots (for the terrain). I'm glad Edward I was dead by 1314, as I believe he could have defeated us.


Also Francisco Solano López, the man who annihilated nearly 60% of the population of Paraguay in a futile attempt to shift the regional balance of power in Latin America. This left around 28000 males in a total population of 221000. Not bad for those who survived, you might argue.

[Csargo]

I think that Hitler was the most foolish commander ever

[DisruptorX]

I think that Hitler was the most foolish commander ever

Err....have you read how he took France and Belgium?

[discovery1]

Err....have you read how he took France and Belgium?

Wasn't that idea von Mainstein's, but Hitler claimed it as his own?