Foolish

[Franconicus]

What is the most foolish mistake in military history?
Who is the worst military leader of all times?

[Al Khalifah]

Prince William of Orange (1792 - 1849). - a pretty awful commander by anyone's standards and his incompetence was magnified by the fact he was put in command of such a large number of lives at such a pivotal battle in European history. Later became King William II of the Netherlands.

[Franconicus]

Here are some German:

Moltke (the nephew): He soiled the Schleiffen plan completely.
Falkenberg: His Verdun plan was as stupid as can be.
Paulus: Did not havethe courage to withdraw his troops from Stalingrad

Roman: Varus, of course!

But what about single mistakes

[Franconicus]

Look at this story. It seem very foolish to me!

FERDINAND VON SCHILL

The Pre-History of the Rebellion

In 1809 Emperor Francis I., inspired by the vigor of the Spanish popular war, called upon the Germans to rise against Napoleon, while Austria herself took the field. Among those who responded to the call was Prussian Freiherr FERDINAND VON SCHILL. Prussia herself stayed out of the war.

The Military Course of Events

Schill, with a regiment of hussars, left Berlin April 28th 1809, campaigning against French forces (in official terminology, he deserted with his regiment). As Prussia was at peace with France, he christened his regiment a "Freischar" (FREE CORPS). In order not to compromise Prussia, he had to campaign outside of Prussian territory. On May 1st he was in front of Wittenberg (Saxony) demanding the fortress commander to surrender - he did not, as Saxony was a staunch French ally.
Aware that he alone could not hope to defeat the French, Schill had hoped on Emperor Francis I. and on Germany's patriots to answer his call and rise, like he did. On May 13th Vienna surrendered to the French; yet the Austrian army still campaigned.
Schill withdrew to STRALSUND in Swedish Pomerania, where he overwhelmed the weak forces, occupying the city (May 25th) in the name of the Swedish King Gustavus Adolphys IV. (who at that time was under arrest in Sweden). Swedish soldiers and the Ruegen militia joined Schill in his fight. Schill faced a force outnumbering his 4:1; he died while fighting in the streets May 31st. 543 of his men were deported to the galleys, 11 of his officers brought to the city of WESEL, where they were executed.

[GoreBag]

Look at this story. It seem very foolish to me!

FERDINAND VON SCHILL

The Pre-History of the Rebellion

In 1809 Emperor Francis I., inspired by the vigor of the Spanish popular war, called upon the Germans to rise against Napoleon, while Austria herself took the field. Among those who responded to the call was Prussian Freiherr FERDINAND VON SCHILL. Prussia herself stayed out of the war.

The Military Course of Events

Schill, with a regiment of hussars, left Berlin April 28th 1809, campaigning against French forces (in official terminology, he deserted with his regiment). As Prussia was at peace with France, he christened his regiment a "Freischar" (FREE CORPS). In order not to compromise Prussia, he had to campaign outside of Prussian territory. On May 1st he was in front of Wittenberg (Saxony) demanding the fortress commander to surrender - he did not, as Saxony was a staunch French ally.
Aware that he alone could not hope to defeat the French, Schill had hoped on Emperor Francis I. and on Germany's patriots to answer his call and rise, like he did. On May 13th Vienna surrendered to the French; yet the Austrian army still campaigned.
Schill withdrew to STRALSUND in Swedish Pomerania, where he overwhelmed the weak forces, occupying the city (May 25th) in the name of the Swedish King Gustavus Adolphys IV. (who at that time was under arrest in Sweden). Swedish soldiers and the Ruegen militia joined Schill in his fight. Schill faced a force outnumbering his 4:1; he died while fighting in the streets May 31st. 543 of his men were deported to the galleys, 11 of his officers brought to the city of WESEL, where they were executed.

That sounds okay to me, just kind of unglorious.

Douglas Haig was a bit of a wanker. Of course, by "a bit of a", I mean, "a huge". He is quoted as having said "the machine gun is overrated".

Another Scot who should have had more brains or balls is the Earl of Mar, "Bobbing John", leader of the uprising in 1715 (his Chrisitan name eludes me right now). Basically, he raised thousands of troops, summoned the Highland Chiefs to a meeting and garnered their support, then sat around at Sheriffmuir in the hope that the French would send reinforcements. Predictably, they didn't, which allowed the English to raise a suitable army and crush the rebellion.

[Templar Knight]

John Erskine

[PanzerJaeger]

Look at this story. It seem very foolish to me!

I dont think that would rank up as one of the most foolish military mistakes in history.. it hardly ranks as foolish in my opinion.

[sharrukin]

Here are some German:

Moltke (the nephew): He soiled the Schleiffen plan completely.
Falkenberg: His Verdun plan was as stupid as can be.
Paulus: Did not havethe courage to withdraw his troops from Stalingrad

Roman: Varus, of course!

But what about single mistakes

Well Von Paulus would have been removed from command and shot if he had tried to pull his troops back. It was Hitler's bungle not the general who carried out the idiotic orders. To be a bad commander you need to at least have been able to choose some other course.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

My vote would have to go for Charles the Bold of Burgundy whose wars against the Swiss were far from well fought

[sharrukin]

British General A.E. Percival commanding the defence of Singapore 1941.

Roman General Crassus in the battle of Carrhae 53 BC.

Italian General Graziani against O'Connor in the desert late 1940.

[ShadesPanther]

Himmler and his disasterous campaign in 1945
and i second Haig and most generals in WW1

[AlexPeters]

The french Marechal Bazaine in Mexico and later during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.

The italian generals (Starace, Babbini, Maravigna, Pirzio-Biroli etc.) during the italian invasion of Ethopia 1935-36.

Marschall Göring and his "Operation Adler" or his idea of finishing the British Expeditionary forces at Dunkirk with planes only.

Dom Henrique (Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal) during his expedition to Tanger in 1437.

General Sir Ian Hamilton as the commander of the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force during the Gallipoli disaster in 1915.

Most generals on both sides during the 1st WW

Medina Sidona and the Spanish Armada.

....

[Kongamato]

General Edward Braddock made a serious blunder in the French and Indian War. He did not adapt to the change in terrain and tactics.

http://www.sparknotes.com/history/am...section2.rhtml

[Ironside]

Matthias Gallas, count von Campo

Very good on destroying armies during the 30-years war, his own armies that is.

[Ayachuco]

Goering, commander of the Luftwaffe
King John, lost the Angevin Empire

[SwordsMaster]

Marshall Zhukov, burned 2 tank armies in the streets of Berlin in '45. Pointlessly.
Failed to surround 3 German Caucasian armies in '43 and spent 8 months storming a pointless german position in Sukovka (or something similar) only to find (once he took it, 8 months and 2 armies later) that the germans had laid minefields and spent another few thousand lives to cross them.

[Duke Malcolm]

Prince Charles Edward Stuart/Stewart, Battle of Culloden.
After marching the Jacobite Army down to Derby, he then marched them back up to Inverness, because the Government's forces were closing in on them, even though a French force was waiting to assist him.
On arrival at Inverness, the army marched to a government base near Inverness to attack them by surprise, but dawn was breaking, and the enemy army was up, so the Jacobites had been marching all night without rest.
The Jacobite army marched back to Inverness, well, Culloden field. They set up with a wall to their right flank, and a bog to the front. The government army, led by the Duke of Cumberland, attacked them. The jacobite highlanders charged across the bog, which slowed them down, making them an easy target for enemy cannon, grapeshot, and musket fire. Enemy dragoons and musketeers set up along the wall, out-flanking the jacobites.

[AlexPeters]

Friedrich III. of Prussia and his glorious army of Jena and Auerstedt, more men, good discipline but he had choosen the oldest gernerals he could find in his country to command them. The youngest was about 65 i think. Instead of delaying the french armies they took them head on while a russian army was already on their way to support the prussians.
The commanders of the prussian fortresses in the same war are also top on the list, the garrison of the strongest prussian fortress Erfurt surrendered immediatly with 20000 men and 200 cannons because 20 french hussars were on the gates, if i'm remembering correctly.

Another one but i think it has been bad luck only:
The Admiral of the dutch fleet that had to surrender with his whole fleet because french Hussars had surrounded his ships while they were anchoring in friendly waters. His mistake, well, the weather was against him in this winter, his ships were enclosed by ice and the hussars rode over the frozen sea.

[RabidGibbon]

What about Raglan at Balaclava?

The orders may have been spectacularly carried out by the light brigade but that doesn't mean they should have been given, or they should have been clearer about which guns he mean't.

Or maybe Cardigan was to blame for following the orders.

Either way someone was pretty damn foolish.

[Duke Malcolm]

No, the Cardigan mis-interpreted the orders, because of bad grammar.
The orders were intended to move the Light Brigade down one valley, but Cardigan rode down the Valley of Death, because of bad grammar, and not pointing out which guns to go to.

[the Count of Flanders]

Marshall Zhukov, burned 2 tank armies in the streets of Berlin in '45. Pointlessly.
Failed to surround 3 German Caucasian armies in '43 and spent 8 months storming a pointless german position in Sukovka (or something similar) only to find (once he took it, 8 months and 2 armies later) that the germans had laid minefields and spent another few thousand lives to cross them.

and yet he is regarded as a war hero in Russia, he must have gotten something right...

[ShadesPanther]

well he had no regard for the nuimber of casulties, a few offensives failed but he eventually reached Berlin

[The Wizard]

Prince William of Orange (1792 - 1849). - a pretty awful commander by anyone's standards and his incompetence was magnified by the fact he was put in command of such a large number of lives at such a pivotal battle in European history. Later became King William II of the Netherlands.

Grmbl -- indeed, he was a fool and almost Greek in his hunger for power. He actually collaborated with the Belgians to spite his father in hopes of gaining a throne!

Also, it seems the number 'II' added to 'William of Orange' spells 'bad luck' in Dutch history. Prince William of Orange (1626 - 1650) was like the later member of his line also power-hungry and quite unable to understand the ways of politics and the division of power in the world of the time. Luckily, he died after three years, before he could do any permanent damage. Unluckily, the Republic fell into the hands of the landsadvocaat Johan de Witt, who was not very well-versed in the ways of war and totally underestimated the danger that Louis XIV posed. We were only saved by Michiel de Ruyter, bless him.

Oh, and how about Buller in the Second Boer War. Hooray for a very poorly executed offensive at Colenso, my fat friend... now make way for Jan Paulus Leroux (no, not a Brit, but a Boer)!



~Wiz

[Pooma]

Townshend, (Wanted to be Townshend of Baghdad). Oversaw one of the longest retreats in British history, and then was inside the walls for the absolute longest seige in British Army history; thought it would make him famous when some other army had to be sent to extract him.

It is interesting to note that at the time the British Army, and the dominion forces trained almost exclusively for the offensive, and were perhaps the most effective attacking (the Germans can claim to have been better overall with some justification) force the world had ever seen.

Many of the WW1 generals were a bit dim but this guy made an art of self promoting cretinry. Also one of his brigadiers died of eating grass.

The Scot in me demands that I vote for Edward II. The man was a total pillock. His father might not have been able to win at Bannockburn either, but then his father wasn't likely to have ever fought there. Unless he was stoned or something. Or someone mentioned that Bannockburn was holding the Scottish Sexeh Goat rally that year. OK, so I don't like Edward I very much, I can't help it. He does bring out the contrast with Mk 2 pretty well.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Hitler: Not snuffing the UK out when he had the chance.
Attacking Russia while fighting the UK.

[Krusader]

General Bernadotte in the French army. Did alot of things wrong, and ignored several orders from Napoleon, which could have ended disasterously sometimes hadn't it been for other skilled French commanders.

Most generals in WW1. French General Jonut/Jounot comes to mind.

Guy de Lusignan perhaps, for marching most of the crusader troops into open terrain, and defying earlier crusader state tactics.

A military mistake, was when six highly experienced Athenian admirals were executed by the Athens Council for allowing some Athenian sailors to drown during a battle. This ment inexperienced admirals and the morale in the navy spiralling due to the executions. Short while later, almost entire Athenian fleet was destroyed at Aigospotami.

Dien Bien Phu. French organization and poor plan of sending in reinforcements.

Fourth Crusade besieges Constantinople. Piss-poor leadership among Greek generals & officers, Greek troops ill-disciplined, low morale & poor training. Byzantine fleet had in addition not been maintained for 8-9 years under Emperor Alexius III rule.
Byzantine Emperors were very quick to flee.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

One word for worst military mistake ever: Verdun.
Another case could be made for the German Invasion of Belgium in 1914.
And also the Somme was pretty stupid at parts (the British at the Somme that is).
Another quite stupid military mistake had to be the Ardennes offensive.
And let us never forget the British at the Somme. I mean, seriously. SERIOUSLY! HOW STUPID CAN THEY HAVE BEEN!

Oh and for commanders, I'd have to say...
1. Burnside
2. Molkte (nephew)
3. Emannuel Grouchy
4. Ney
5. Zhukov
6. The dude that commanded the Russians at Borodino.
7. Varus

[Petrus]

What is the most foolish mistake in military history?
Who is the worst military leader of all times?

French general gamelin stands among the top as he managed to find himself without any reserve left when the battle started in 1940 wich led to the following disaster.

And marechal petain of course, whose military doctrine corresponded fully to the needs of the battle of verdun in 1916 and to nothing else. Unfortunatly, as he exerced his most important role in the 1930's, this doctrine made france military defeated certain even before the war started in 1939.

[Basiliscus]

The Scot in me demands that I vote for Edward II. The man was a total pillock.

Indeed. The man was a fool. Only English arrogance would try and field heavy cavalry in marshland against a lighter armoured and better equipped Scots (for the terrain). I'm glad Edward I was dead by 1314, as I believe he could have defeated us.


Also Francisco Solano López, the man who annihilated nearly 60% of the population of Paraguay in a futile attempt to shift the regional balance of power in Latin America. This left around 28000 males in a total population of 221000. Not bad for those who survived, you might argue.

[Csargo]

I think that Hitler was the most foolish commander ever