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Thread: English Faction Thread

  1. #1
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default English Faction Thread

    The purpose of this thread is to hold information about the English faction.

    Kings names

    Edward III (1327 - 77)
    Richard II (1377 - 99)
    Henry IV (1399 - 1413)
    Henry V (1413 - 1422)
    Henry VI (1422 - 61 & 1470 - 71)
    Edward IV (1461 - 1470 & 1471 - 1483)
    Richard III (1483 - 1485)
    Henry VII (1485-

    Heroes
    Banner
    Units
    etc.,
    Last edited by ShadesWolf; 05-05-2005 at 13:17.
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    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Flag and faction text
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    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    POTENTIAL UNIT


    West Country Mariners - Pirates recruited into military service. As naval warfare was based around archery at this time, they could be a low disciplined longbow unit. (their first appearance was in the War of the Roses)

    Welsh Spearmen (Knifemen) - Ran behind the Men-at-Arms and slit the throats of any injured enemy soldiers. Low cost light infantry levy. (Were numerous in Edward III's armies)

    Gascon Nobles - Heavy cavalry, but in small numbers. The nobles of Gascony gladly contributed to English armies before and during the HTW. They preferred to stay mounted when fighting, despite the fashion of the time.

    Gascon Sergeants - Infantry from Gascony and all over the Dutchy of Aquitaine were noted for being quality pikemen. However they have been over-shadowed in history by the Swiss and to a lesser extent the Flemish.

    Gascon Crossbowmen - Several sources state that Gascony provided many men armed with crossbows and were of a notable quality.

    English Longbow - We will need to decide how many types of units we are going to have for these guys.

    ENGLISH KNIGHTS
    - English Royal Knights
    - English Knights
    - English Men-at- Arms

    I think if we have three groups of Knights for the English that should be enough. These can cover Royalty (Kings, Princes), Nobles and Lesser Nobles (Dukes and Counts) and Finally a general unit to cover all the other English mounted units - These have not quite made it yet as a full knight.

    Bordeaux Malitia -
    Last edited by ShadesWolf; 05-10-2005 at 19:15.
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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Colonial and Auxiliary English troop Suggestions

    West Country Mariners - Pirates recruited into military service. As naval warfare was based around archery at this time, they could be a low disciplined longbow unit. (their first appearance was in the War of the Roses)

    Welsh Knifemen - Ran behind the Men-at-Arms and slit the throats of any injured enemy soldiers (nice ). Although Rome carn't really illustrate this units function, they could just be a low cost light infantry levy. (Were numerous in Edward III's armies)

    Gascon Nobles - Heavy cavalry, but in small numbers. The nobles of Gascony gladly contributed to English armies before and during the HTW. They preferred to stay mounted when fighting, despite the fashion of the time.

    Gascon Sergeants - Infantry from Gascony and all over the Dutchy of Aquitaine were noted for being quality pikemen. However they have been over-shadowed in history by the Swiss and to a lesser extent the Flemish.

    Gascon Crossbowmen - Several sources state that Gascony provided many men armed with crossbows and were of a notable quality.

    Just some suggestions.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

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    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    I'd call them dismounted hobilars or welsh light infantry rather than knifemen.

    Irish light infantry also as they saw action in the english armies of the hundred years war.

    Heros:

    William de Bohun Earl of Northampton, extremely loyal to Edward and saw action at Calais, in Brittany and the battle of Crecy

    Thomas Hatfield, Bishop of Durham, fought at Caen and Crecy and was known for his love of battle.

    Reginald Cobham: Grizzled war captain who fought in scotland and later instrumental in the victory over the French at Sluys after surveying the terrain and seeing how vunerable the French fleet was. Feared and respected by both friend and enemy.


    I've got loads more for this so i'll post as much as i can tomorrow

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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    How could i have forgotten the Irish Kerns!!!!!
    I only called them Knifemen because thay carried big @$$ knives rather than swords. In the latter HYW, archers from wales continued the tradition of carring great knives. They hung them from the back of waist, this gave rise to the legend that the Welsh had tails.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

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    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    I wonder if that could account for the French believing the archers were literally demons and how, if ever caught, would expect death after they devasted so much of Brittany and other areas of France.

    Geoffrey De Pont Blanc promised to burn any archers he caught in Lannion town square, luckily the English garrison of La Roche Derrien killed him and took Lannion before he had the chance

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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    They (the French) must have wised up to it later because they just started to cut off the second finger of every archer they caught then let them go (if there was no potential for ransom). Thats were the V sign came from, English archers taunting the French soldiers.

    P.S You sure know your names
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  9. #9
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Heroes

    Sir John Chandos

    One of the most respected English commanders of the 14th century, he first distinguished himself in the campaigns of 1339. Later he served with great distinction at Crecy, Poitiers and Najara.

    Sir Thomas Holand

    One of the senior commanders in Prince Edwrads division at Crecy. He firstmilitary service was in Flanders in 1340. In 1342 he went to Bayonne to defend the Gascon frontier. In1343 he was admitted into the order of the Garter. In 1346 he served in the retinue of the earl of warwick and at the taking of Caen he captured the Constable of France.

    Laurence Hastings, Earl of Pembroke

    Served in Flanders in 1339. In 1340 he accompanied the king on his exzpedition into Scotland. Took a prominent part in Lancasters campaign of 1345 in Aquitaine and Gascony. He was at the siege of Calais but died in 1348

    Captal de Buch - Jean III de Grailly

    Most noted Gascon commander of the Poitiers campaign. He became the Black Princes Lieutentant in Aquitaine and distinguished himself at the battle of poitiers. He died a prisoner of the French King in 1377 as he would not agree to never taking up arms against France again.




    Sir Walter Manny
    Last edited by ShadesWolf; 05-06-2005 at 17:35.
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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Just been doing a bit of research and came across what could make quite a nice unit: Bordeaux Militia. They could be similar to the Spartan Hoplites in RTW, in that they can only recruited in Bordeaux.

    Historical Information
    Militia from Bordeaux seems to have been fiercely loyal to the English crown. In 1254, a militia was raised, and agreed to serve the King for forty days without pay. The type of soldiers that made up the militia's is unknown, but they seem to have been of inconsistent quality. In 1420 and 1423, militia's from Bordeaux, along with the cities artillery arsenal, were deployed to capture French castles (on what must have been Aquitaine's frontier).

    Unit Information
    I have no real idea what type of troops these could be, so i think some brain storming is in order (that is if you all like the idea). My first suggestion would be for the militia to be standard spearmen. What do you all think?
    Last edited by Sauron the Great; 05-11-2005 at 08:43.
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  11. #11
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Well with Bordeaux probably having a high concentration of Gascons i would say they would be a spearmen or a mounted infantry with good morale.

    I'm not sure if they an Elite unit but considering the lack of English manpower in the south west of France the Gascon population, who were very loyal to their English overlords, were sought after and seen often in the armies of the Earl of Derby and later Edward of Woodstock or the Black Prince in his Raids into southern France and at the battle of Poitier in 1356.

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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Mounted infantry is good idea. As Bordeaux was a rich city, perhaps many of its citizens would have been able to afford horses. In what i'm reading at the moment, it states that the Gascons had a system of mustering armies that was as sophisticated, and very similar to the English system, that of retinues and malitia levies. So it's not surprising that English got many Gascons into their armies, like you said BKB.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

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    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    All I can find is Malice

    Middle English, from Old French, from Latin malitia (maybe is means militia)
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    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    A Few Notes on Englsih Armies

    Local Gascon militias had long played a major role in the defence of the English possessions in the south-western France.... The Black Princes army also included bidaus and brigans, including light infantry armed with traditional javelins.

    The Gascon nobility provided nearly 4,000 for the chevauchee of the Earl of Stafford in 1352.

    Sources of manpower in the duchy fell into three main categories:
    firstly, the companies and retinues of the Gascon nobility, difficult to distinguish from the second type : hired captains and their followings; and thirdly, troops raised by the towns, either through short-term contracts with captains or from communal levies. In terms of quality and proffessionalism, the hired captains and the nobles clearly outdid the communal levies.

    The militia of Bordeaux, which had agreed in 1254 to serve the king-duke without pay for forty days within the diocese, was a force of dubious competence. But it certainly served to recover castles from French hands well before the outbreak of the war in 1337
    Last edited by ShadesWolf; 05-10-2005 at 20:53.
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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    A javelin armed unit, like a Gascon Irish kern would be good.
    Last edited by Sauron the Great; 05-11-2005 at 08:44.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  16. #16
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Based on the fact that cities play an important role in Rome TW then we can use terms like Bordeaux Militia, etc when describing unique units this could also help with Longbows as it will allow for Flint and cheshire archers.
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    Member Member Sauron the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    Yeah that would sweet. Would the archers be individual units or just get bonuses from those cities, like hobelars could get a bonus from London.
    'He who strikes the first blow, if he strikes it hard enough, may need to strike no more'.

  18. #18
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: English Faction Thread

    The following is a proposal for an eglish army list, it might make a few changes/ additions before this is complete but it gives us an idea to work from

    English Army List

    Men-at-Arms
    Mounted Knights (Heavy cavalry)
    Dismounted/foot Knights (Heavy Infantry, two handed sword)
    Mounted Men-at-Arms (Medium cavalry)
    Dismounted Men-at-Arms (Heavy Infantry, Poleaxe)
    Gascon Nobles (Medium to Heavy cavalry)

    Retinue and Professional Soldiers
    - Retained Billmen (Light to Medium Infantry)
    - Retained Longbowmen (14th Century)
    - Retained Longbowmen (15th Century)
    - Hobelars (Mounted Spearmen)
    - Gascon Crossbowmen
    - Gascon Sergeants (pikemen)
    - Welsh Footsoldiers (War of the Roses unit, Welsh preferred Halberds to Bills)
    - Bombards (Siege Cannon)
    - Demi-Culverins (Field Cannon)

    Levies, Militia, Local Forces and Colonial Troops
    - Shire Billmen (Light Infantry)
    - Shire Longbowmen
    - Irish Kerns (skirmishers)
    - Welsh Knifemen (Light infantry)
    - West Country Mariners (War of the Roses, Longbow Unit)
    - Bordeaux Militia (Light infantry or mounted infantry, to be decided)
    - Gascon Brigands (Skirmishers, similar to Kerns)
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