Do you believe in HR

[Franconicus]

Do you believe there are HUMAN RIGHTS? Does every single individual have rights, given by God before birth which cannot be taken away?

[Ja'chyra]

I fail to see how I could be given anything by a mythical figure.

Taking God out of it, I don't believe there is much you can have that someone couldn't take away if they were determined enough.

[Somebody Else]

Rights come with duties. Nothing more tiresome than someone bleating about their rights without having done anything to earn them.

Of course, it's perfectly acceptable to inherit them.

[Ja'chyra]

I fail to see how I could be given anything by a mythical figure.

Taking God out of it, I don't believe there is much you can have that someone couldn't take away if they were determined enough.

[Shambles]

I firmly beleve That all things are equal.
I am no better than you and you are no better than me,
You may be able to do somethings better than i can and at those things you are better than me,
but never the less over all you are no better than i am.
Even if you can do Everything better than me,
i am no better nor worse than you,

for instance i also beleve
I am no better than a tree and should have no more rights than a tree
or prehaps the tree should have all the same rights as i have.

Humans have a lack of respect,
and deem them selfs to be better than animals.
But we are not, so becous of this lack of respect some may say humans are worse than animals, and there for animals are better.

i say were no better than any 1 or any thing els, and neither are we any worse,

Btw,
I am not at all religious,
ShambleS

[bmolsson]

Do you believe there are HUMAN RIGHTS? Does every single individual have rights, given by God before birth which cannot be taken away?

Only if he or she is born in the west. It has clearly been proved in the discussions in this very forum.....

[JAG]

I believe in human rights, but they most definitely do not come from God.

Human rights are merely things which every human possess' and should never be taken away - even though they are able to be taken away. Every human retains human rights regardless of what they have done to breach others human rights, because to simply be part of the human race is to have these rights - such as the right to life.

[ichi]

Exactly ^^^^^^^^^

Good work Jag

ichi

[sharrukin]

I believe in human rights, but they most definitely do not come from God.

Human rights are merely things which every human possess' and should never be taken away - even though they are able to be taken away. Every human retains human rights regardless of what they have done to breach others human rights, because to simply be part of the human race is to have these rights - such as the right to life.

If human rights are not granted by a spiritual being (God)

And they are not derived from a legal document

And diverse peoples do or do not recognize the existance of such rights

Then where do you believe they come from?

[Don Corleone]

Human rights are merely things which every human possess' and should never be taken away - even though they are able to be taken away. Every human retains human rights regardless of what they have done to breach others human rights, because to simply be part of the human race is to have these rights - such as the right to life.

I don't think I've ever agreed with you quite so much as on this Jag. Just one quick poke though...

Is the right to self-defense a human right?

[Redleg]

The aspect of the queston is good - Do you believe in Human Rights?

The answer is yes - where they come from can be a matter of debate depending upon one's belief.

Where does the concept of individual rights come from - it does not come from what Jag is alluding to with this statement; Human rights are merely things which every human possess' and should never be taken away because as a human being you can not possess a right.

Here is how the United Nations teaches "Human Rights" to children.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/abc.htm

Then there is a lot of documents on what Human Rights actually are.

http://www.takingitglobal.org/themes/hr/

Think of all the major issues happening in the world today and you are sure to find that they are all linked to Human Rights. But at a time when Human Rights are so important, few people can truly define them. Without a definition though, there are no banks and no river, life is simply a swamp, filled with murky water polluted with sewage. So what exactly are Human Rights? Although the obvious answer would simply be behavioral guidelines in a legal document, they are much more than just a set of statements in a declaration. They are an understanding of how all people should be treated and an acceptance that every person has a responsibility to protect each individual on this earth. They are a constant promotion of equality and respect for every single inhabitant regardless of distinguishing factors or personal preferences. Human Rights are the framework in which we set our actions and base our decisions.
Now that we have defined Human Rights we have formed banks for our river, but they are not very strong and the water is still dirty. There is still a long way to go until we reach that goal of a life flowing with freedom and dignity.

Even here the defination is ambigous (SP) at best. What is a fundmental human right? Is it the right to life? If so then why does the world allow abortions? Why is their a death penelty in many nations? This is where even in the Western world we violate one basic principle of human rights according to Jag's statement. The west practices not only abortion but once again as in the United States we have the death penelty for certain crimes. So the right to life is disregarded by all sides in the dicussion about what are human rights.

Where do rights come from - the answer is really rather complex - individuals within the society determine what rights will be granted to all within that society. Certain concepts will make it throughout all societies - and others will fall flat on their face. International treaties concerning Human Rights are worthless pieces of paper unless their is a power to insure that those rights are protected and honored throughtout all of humanity. (Yea right the UN can force Human RIghts onto all nations.)

If society does not grant the rights to the people through the established form of government for the society - the people can raise up and force the government to establish certain "rights" based upon the people.

Now for me - I believe in the certain rights were endowed by the Creator - just like the Declaration of Independence shows. However that does not prevent me from understanding where secular human rights come from. And because they are secular - those rights require a human agency to enforce and define those rights.

[Lazul]

The Only human rights we humans can have are the once we create for our selfs. There is no mythical force out there, in the nothingness that gives us any kind of universal rights.

Even if someone points at the bible and says, This book proves we have such rights, and so forth, that stills proves that the human rights in question is created by man.

So, No, we dont have any universal human rights. But we have the rights written down by law in the books made by man. Its all about us humans writing good books

[Ironside]

I don't think I've ever agreed with you quite so much as on this Jag. Just one quick poke though...

Is the right to self-defense a human right?

As long it doesn't include a gun it is.

[Don Corleone]

I suppose I should clarify my agreement. I haven't had a sudden anti-conversion and have taken to referring to the Almighty as a 'mythic figure'.

However, what I meant was that human rights are fundamental to the basis of civilization, and with or without a belief in a supreme being, they must be included in any codes of conduct.

Ironside,
So you believe in a right to self-defense, but only a very limited one that guarantees you'll be weaker than an agressor who choses not to respect human rights? Is that really a right to self-defense?

[Byzantine Prince]

Human rights is a kind of law. If it's not a law then people wouldn't know they were breaching it. People are not all so affluent as to care about how other feel. If we are to create a society where everyone is free to live in peace then human rights are a must. Now what makes these rights is very simply the logical societal ideas. Everyone has to lave the right to life. Everyone has to have the right to speak out his mind. But there should also be restrictions. One cannot say anything anything they wish or else we'd be in a mess. I don't wanna walk around and have someone swear at my mother for example.

Do I believe in human rights per se? No. It's not a matter of believing in it, it's about having it installed to protect citizens. It's not something god given or spiritual or even ideological. It can differ from place to place depending on the predispositions. On whatever from it exists though it's a very positive step forward for all of humanity.

[Idomeneas]

Human rights is a kind of law. If it's not a law then people wouldn't know they were breaching it. People are not all so affluent as to care about how other feel. If we are to create a society where everyone is free to live in peace then human rights are a must. Now what makes these rights is very simply the logical societal ideas. Everyone has to lave the right to life. Everyone has to have the right to speak out his mind. But there should also be restrictions. One cannot say anything anything they wish or else we'd be in a mess. I don't wanna walk around and have someone swear at my mother for example.

Do I believe in human rights per se? No. It's not a matter of believing in it, it's about having it installed to protect citizens. It's not something god given or spiritual or even ideological. It can differ from place to place depending on the predispositions. On whatever from it exists though it's a very positive step forward for all of humanity.

What we call human rights are the distilled values from various codes various civllizations followed through time. I dont believe they come from god or any supreme power. They are based on the first unwritten laws of humans. The very laws that allowed the thing we called society become true.

[Redleg]

What we call human rights are the distilled values from various codes various civllizations followed through time. I dont believe they come from god or any supreme power. They are based on the first unwritten laws of humans. The very laws that allowed the thing we called society become true.

Nicely stated

[Colovion]

Inherently people believe they deserve to be treated, at the least, as equals to those around them.

I agree.

[Laridus Konivaich]

Yes, I do believe in human rights, and that all people should have THE EXACT SAME rights as everyone else. This is something else, in response to the title, in which I believe:

< HR WIDTH="50%" COLOR="RED" ALIGN="LEFT">

[Hurin_Rules]

I believe essentially what JAG said.

I do not believe the rights come from God, but I do believe we as human beings can decide to afford all other human beings some basic rights, attempt to prevent others from infringing upon those rights and punish those that do.

As to the question of abortions: I don't want to hijack the thread, but most abortion rights activists would say abortion is not a violation of human rights because a fetus is not a human.

[|OCS|Virus]

I firmly beleve That all things are equal.
I am no better than you and you are no better than me,
You may be able to do somethings better than i can and at those things you are better than me,
but never the less over all you are no better than i am.
Even if you can do Everything better than me,
i am no better nor worse than you,

for instance i also beleve
I am no better than a tree and should have no more rights than a tree
or prehaps the tree should have all the same rights as i have.

Humans have a lack of respect,
and deem them selfs to be better than animals.
But we are not, so becous of this lack of respect some may say humans are worse than animals, and there for animals are better.

i say were no better than any 1 or any thing els, and neither are we any worse,

Btw,
I am not at all religious,
ShambleS

A very interesting and honourable way of thinking. But if you were religous to the christain, catholic, or jewish faith, many would believe that because the bible states very early in the bible {of which I choose to believe but am not trying to force my opinion apon anyone here.} that we were given dominion over all else by god himself. But from a human or more scientific aspect, like ja's, to exclude god, then you become realistic about it, we can do basicly whatever we want in a hierarchy or form of government, which in turn would give ranks to people and advantages and disadvantages over others. I believe that not all are equal, but should be treated as such. I treat all equaly untill they give me a good reason not to. For instance if I hold a door for someone and they kick me you know were, odds are after I'm able to get up, I wont hold the door open for that person again, therefore making him unequal to those around him in the aspect that I am more likely to hold a door open for them than I am to hold one open for him. A poor example, but you get the jist of it.

[sharrukin]

I firmly beleve That all things are equal.
I am no better than you and you are no better than me,
You may be able to do somethings better than i can and at those things you are better than me,
but never the less over all you are no better than i am.
Even if you can do Everything better than me,
i am no better nor worse than you,

for instance i also beleve
I am no better than a tree and should have no more rights than a tree
or prehaps the tree should have all the same rights as i have.

Humans have a lack of respect,
and deem them selfs to be better than animals.
But we are not, so becous of this lack of respect some may say humans are worse than animals, and there for animals are better.

i say were no better than any 1 or any thing els, and neither are we any worse,

Btw,
I am not at all religious,
ShambleS

So the choice between swerving to avoid 5 children or 30 ants on a road would be resolved by you in what way?

[bmolsson]

The utopian question on "the right to live" will of course be when a choice is necessary. As with a mother and a fetus. Who have the "most" right to live?

The reality of today is that the human rights are only available to the people with the proper location of birth and ethnic background. This makes human rights to a privilige given to the fortunate. The lack of will to create a global justice system further entrench this reality. Human rights of today is what is portraited in media...........

[PanzerJaeger]

No i do not believe in Human Rights.

It is clear throughout history that the individual liberties we enjoy in the modern western world are fragile and fleeting. They must be upheld by strength of will and arms.

All human rights are subject to the powers that be. There is nothing inherent about them.

Just because we have grown accostomed to liberties and occasionally enjoy trying to give them to people less fortunate does not mean they are the right of every person on earth.

If people in, say China, are not willing to fight for their human rights, they niether have nor deserve them.

[bmolsson]

If people in, say China, are not willing to fight for their human rights, they niether have nor deserve them.

How could the Chinese people fight for their human rights ? Their oppressing regime is financed by the western consumers in such numbers that it's impossible to fight the regime without a new revolution. We in the west don't even give them our support by not purchasing the products produced on their slave labor.....

[Byzantine Prince]

If people in, say China, are not willing to fight for their human rights, they niether have nor deserve them.

This is a little irrelevent but what human rights exactly are the Chinese being denied?

[bmolsson]

This is a little irrelevent but what human rights exactly are the Chinese being denied?

The right to not being runned over by tanks ??

[Ironside]

Ironside,
So you believe in a right to self-defense, but only a very limited one that guarantees you'll be weaker than an agressor who choses not to respect human rights? Is that really a right to self-defense?

Well as we in Sweden has successfully avoided to get guns common in society, so the average crook don't have a gun, so it would be stupid to introduce guns for the average citizen as it would most likely give the average criminal a gun too.

So you stay at the same level as the aggressor, but both are using a weaker weapon, thus reducing the amount of killing. Going any further, as in reducing the amount of weaker weapons (like knifes) used is ineffective as it's used regularly, while the only purpose for guns is either protecting yourself, use it for robbery, hunting and practice shooting (for fun or training). Only allowing it for the two last points (with license) gives the least amont of guns.

The very heavy criminals do get hold of guns, but they seem to be using assult weapons and robbing money trucks, or killing other criminals, and shootouts with civilians involved havn't happen here for a while (as long as I can remember that is), so getting a regular gun for that would be stupid, as it would probably only endanger yourself in that case.

For America, first you find out exactly why the Americans on average are much more trigger happy then the population of Switzerland and adapt on thereafter.

To be on topic:
IMO there exist no absolute haman rights, but there exist some rights that it's easiest to build a society on and those rights are good to follow and to apply to all of humanity. So while it might not be absolute, there's some laws that it's best for humanity to follow.

[Idomeneas]

In few words even if human rights didnt existed-exist we should invent them. Things like that shows that humanity progress. Otherwise we just switched spears for bullets

[GoreBag]

No.