Which faction for the first game

[sunsmountain]

Had the most fun with Spain.

[Martok]

Had the most fun with Spain.

Agreed. The Spanish are definitely my favorite faction (followed close behind by the Eggies and the Byz). They have a lot of good nearby provinces into which they can expand, they can Crusade (which is very useful against the Almohads), they can usually get El Cid for a decent price.....and of course they get Jinnettes!

The Egyptians can get some massive trade income going very quickly, and their starting units are ideally suited to fighting in desert and arid regions. The major drawbacks to playing as them is you pretty much have to take out the Turks and later on the Byzantines--and you're often the target of Catholic Crusades. (Of course, this can give you the opportunity to Jihad, which is always fun. )

The Byzantines, as VH pointed out, get some good income and *great* units, especially in Early (gotta love the Katanks and VH!). As I've said in a previous post, however, I really don't recommend them if it's your first time playing Medieval. The Byz sit at the crossroads of the world, and you become overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you need to keep track of as a result......

[EatYerGreens]

The Byzantines, as VH pointed out, get some good income and *great* units, especially in Early (gotta love the Katanks and VH!). As I've said in a previous post, however, I really don't recommend them if it's your first time playing Medieval. The Byz sit at the crossroads of the world, and you become overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you need to keep track of as a result......

Well, in spite of having started maybe half a dozen campaigns, I've still yet to complete one so, in many ways this is still my 'first time playing medieval'!

Byz, Early, Conquest, Normal difficulty, default unit size.

Basically, I've just about got to the 'overwhelmed' stage. I've grabbed Serbia, rolled up the Turks and the Egyptians and only recently broken into rebel-held Crimea and Khazar. I have ships trading as far west as Corsica and a more than comfortable income (5000-6000 pa profits). Almost so much coming in that it's a struggle to spend it all. Actually spending isn't the problem, it's sensible, well-planned expenditure. All too easy to build things just for the heck of it, with no proper plan in mind, perhaps leading to unnecessary duplication, where specialisations would be more efficient use of funds.

There are loads of provinces to look after, right from the start (I think they begin with about 11 or 12, certainly more than you can initially afford to build up simultaneously and a few of mine still lack even a fort) and there's an almost bewildering range of development choices to make. The trouble is that, following conquest, most provinces are reduced to bare bones and need rebuilding from the ground up just to get to the basic level required to produce the most fundamental unit, the Byz infantry. Money is no object at the moment but the years of waiting are the frustrating thing.

I want VG's in the roster, 2yrs for each unit, which keeps the capital training facilities tied up, so I make do by bulking up on spears units. I so nearly had a second swordsmith in Greece when the Sicilians invaded in its completion year. I eliminated them on the following turn (got Sicily as an unoccupied freebie too) but the five stacks they re-emerged with, on Malta, smashing its port in the process, will be there for the rest of the campaign - as will be my trapped priest, assuming they can't even afford to build a port with all that maintainance to pay and an inability to demobilise.

This is probably the first campaign where I've been in the financial 'comfort zone' but it actually seems to make things more difficult. When the question is 'what can I afford to build this year', the answer is simple and logical because the choices are so few or the needs so pressing. Now that I can, theoretically, build whatever I like, I have to be that much more disciplined about sticking to plans made years beforehand and not deviating from the chosen development path.

Of course, just as I was sitting pretty, I now find I have two Crusades against me and a set of six or more allies dwindles down to nil faster than I can say 'cheers, mate'. Just got the king's younger brother married off to the Italians in time (complete with flashing warning showing that their alliance with me conflicted with their own alliance with Spain, who'd launched their crusade but no hostilities had started yet). Just one year later, they objected to the opening of my war with Spain and sided with them.
I've recently repelled the French's crusade but cannot attack it's remnants as it's sat on Hungary's lands and I could do without an additional war with them just now.

In spite of hasty scouting with priests, I can't actually locate the Spanish crusade at the moment. That's the least of my problems at the moment as they polished off the re-emerged Almos and took Cyrenacia before I considered myself ready to do so. I've just taken that off them but the follow up attack on Tunisia got called off when their turnout was 500 more than mine and their 4 pages of reinforcements (lots of single-man units in there) spelled both a tedious slog and heavy casualties, win or no win.

So I now have large defensive forces tied down on the Hungarian border, a stack-building race in Africa, a time delay before I'm finally ready to churn VG's, BI's and TA's all at the same time and the Steppes excursion now seems like a badly mis-timed third front, stretching me even thinner. The former Egyptian and Turk provinces have been drained of all but the weaker unit types and I feel that my high annual profits are indicative of having an army which is basically too small.

In short, it's an 'eggshell' empire at the moment and will take maybe 20 years to beef up into something more resilient.

By way of an aside, this brings me back to the discussion about whether to role-play and be 'surprised' by the Golden Horde and under-defended against it or to make preparations now and call it 'proper garrisoning'. It's 1176, so I still have time to spare.

In the meantime, I'm having to adjust to getting several battles per turn, some of which are not ones of my choosing. Did you ever get that thing where it's late at night but you say to yourself 'I'll just do one more End-Year before I go to bed' and then find you have another hour or two's work to do?

[Roark]

@ EYG:

1. How many heirs do you have, and what is their highest command rating?
2. How many ship-building provinces?
3. How many decent unit-producing provinces (like Byz Inf. or better)?

Thanks.

IMHO, Khazar is rarely a mistake to invade. I'm totally addicted to Steppe Cav at the moment. They are quick enough to outflank anything, plug gaps, and clock up routers for that Butcher vice...

[Azi Tohak]

I played Almohads for my first shot. No darned Pope screwing with you, and if you invest in mines early, you will be fine on cash. I think they are a great faction to learn. Mind, I played Early, so the great Almohad Urban Militias proved to be devestating. Next, my Byzantines for a few campaigns, now Italy (which I really really like).

Azi

[EatYerGreens]

I played Almohads for my first shot. No darned Pope screwing with you, and if you invest in mines early, you will be fine on cash. I think they are a great faction to learn. Mind, I played Early, so the great Almohad Urban Militias proved to be devestating. Next, my Byzantines for a few campaigns, now Italy (which I really really like).

Azi

I ran an Almo campaign until it developed a repeating crash problem which I put down to gavesave corruption. I chose that point to install the VI expansion, which I'd had for ages but not bothered to install (don't ask!).

I liked the gold mines, I liked having just two border provinces, I liked gaining general stars from rebellious Portugal, I liked being able to access the non-coastal ship areas but I'd only got as far as wiping out the Spanish and breaking through the Pyrenees by the time the game got corrupted.

I agree that the AUM's ate up just about anything, suffering few casualties in the process and racking up valour like nobody's business. As far as I was concerned, they were the Almo equivalent of BI's - and dirt cheap too, not just cost per unit but in terms of required tech level.

Word around the forums was that they were suspiciously overpowered, until the modifications made by VI are in place, that is. I have to agree but I also wanted to try them out for myself, in unmodified form, before entering into any debate about them.

I forget if the Almos begin the game with any fort in Granada (I think they start with a keep in Cordoba) but, let's face it, your getting a unit with +1 valour bonus starting from turn seven, at the latest. No other faction on the map gets that kind of starting edge, other than in their generals/kings units. How the AI manages to **** up the Almos so badly, when it is in charge of them, I cannot imagine.

[Martok]

I ran an Almo campaign until it developed a repeating crash problem which I put down to gavesave corruption. I chose that point to install the VI expansion, which I'd had for ages but not bothered to install (don't ask!).

I liked the gold mines, I liked having just two border provinces, I liked gaining general stars from rebellious Portugal, I liked being able to access the non-coastal ship areas but I'd only got as far as wiping out the Spanish and breaking through the Pyrenees by the time the game got corrupted.

I agree that the AUM's ate up just about anything, suffering few casualties in the process and racking up valour like nobody's business. As far as I was concerned, they were the Almo equivalent of BI's - and dirt cheap too, not just cost per unit but in terms of required tech level.

Word around the forums was that they were suspiciously overpowered, until the modifications made by VI are in place, that is. I have to agree but I also wanted to try them out for myself, in unmodified form, before entering into any debate about them.

I forget if the Almos begin the game with any fort in Granada (I think they start with a keep in Cordoba) but, let's face it, your getting a unit with +1 valour bonus starting from turn seven, at the latest. No other faction on the map gets that kind of starting edge, other than in their generals/kings units. How the AI manages to **** up the Almos so badly, when it is in charge of them, I cannot imagine.

In Viking Invasion, the Almos' AI was switched from "aggressive" to "defensive" (or whatever the opposite designation is). They start with the same assets as they do in original Medieval, but they rarely try to attack anymore (except the occasional invasion of Portugal, and/or to retake lands lost to another faction). That's why you can smack them around so easily with VI installed.

[EatYerGreens]

@ EYG:

1. How many heirs do you have, and what is their highest command rating?
2. How many ship-building provinces?
3. How many decent unit-producing provinces (like Byz Inf. or better)?

Thanks.

IMHO, Khazar is rarely a mistake to invade. I'm totally addicted to Steppe Cav at the moment. They are quick enough to outflank anything, plug gaps, and clock up routers for that Butcher vice...

Thanks for asking, Roark.

1) I think the first Emperor is the one who has six sons. They have all died of old age by the stage I've reached but their descendents kept their star ratings and character traits. The emperor before last gave me a scare by not fathering any sons until into his mid forties. The current Emperor is Constantine XI, who came to the throne at just 18. He's 4-star, influece 7 (previous rulers got up as far as Inf 9) and his younger brother is 7 star but has progressed from 'sybarite' to 'gluttony' and is losing valour points hand over fist. I have an ex-royal general in North Africa who is 8* defence, 9* attack (skilled defender +1, Expert Attacker +2, so base must be 7*)

2) Three, following capture of a dockyard in Sicily but that is currently targeted by a Spanish crusade of 2500+ troops. It finally appeared in Venice, (no Spanish ships sighted in my sea zones yet) but they could theoretically invade on the next turn, by using Italian ships. They are allies but Italy is neutral to me. I have a choice between sinking an Italian ship to force it down the peninsular, through Papal territory and fighting two battles instead of one, or keeping my trade income, most of which is to Italian and Papal ports. Harumph! Still in two minds whether to do 'scorched earth', or whether to stay positive and assume that, even if defeated, a siege-lift operation would be successful against the slashed-up remnants of the crusaders. Certainly a shame to trash my only level-3 castle. Didn't even build it myself.
Not that I've been in any major rush to produce ships, since combat with Sicily ended. If I need another shipbuilder, I have ports in the Levant where there's no real competition for training slots. One of my current shipbuilding sites, Rhodes, is specialising towards spies, so I will need two replacement build sites, in due time.

It was just typical that a storm sinks my only Dromon in the Aegean just as I get sight of the Crusade. I was still able to move a decent number of troops to stage a defence of Sicily but not as many as I'd have liked and not my first choice of general either (I have one with a +3 morale virtue and spare troops but can't make the move from Nicaea). Next turn will be, errr, fun.

3) Constantinople is up to silver armour, spearmaker's Guild, Horse Breeder's guild, church, monastery, Reliquary in 3 more years. I'm making the most of that armour level on VG's (new/retrained) or the odd Kat for restocking generals' units. I built a stop-gap unit of silver V0 PA's there too, since Nicaea still isn't going to be ready for some years yet. As you know, Nicaea gives +1V but their armour level will lag behind for some years after they first become available, curently +1A, so +6 and +8 years to fully catch up.

Trebizond, with level 1 armourer, for +1V TA's. After the damage to Greece, I built a swordsmith here for 'standby' armoured-BI production. Having stocked up on archers somewhat, there was time to produce a few A1 BI's from here.

Rum has just started churning out unarmoured 'desert' BI's.

Greece is being rebuilt towards its former status as main BI production area. These will be armoured, for the central European armies.

Khazar siege fell in the second year, wrecking many very useful buildings, so I should have fought it on the battlemap (I think that saves many structures???). Crops reduced to zero improvements, tradepost gone and there was no port anyway. Luckily I'm able to churn Steppe Cav from there while the crops/TP/Port are put in place. Castle reduced to level 2.

Anatolia was kept blank, save for farms, for many years. It's currently building from ground up for yet another source of BI. In the meantime, the Gov's virtues have boosted him up to something ludicrous, like Acumen 9! He ought to be in charge of Constantinople with that rating but I can't be bothered to switch titles around just now.

Syria is going to be building Assassins with the local valour bonus (the one not mentioned on the parchment). I could upgrade the Constantinople brothel for the same effect but I don't forsee any time soon when troop production can be paused for one year, let alone for the number I had in mind. At least one per province, plus some 'expendables'. I recently lost two V4 assassins on the same turn, most likely to enemy BF's. The Spanish have a drinking den in Valencia (where one of mine was caught), the only source of enemy agents I've yet sighted, so I need to guard against these. I could upgrade my BWTs to BF's but I prefer my agents to gain valour by making agent catches on home soil and BF's always get the credit, instead of the spy/assassin, wherever the two are together.

Sinai and Palestine are churning priests, so my hitherto poor intelligence about the state of central Europe will soon improve. Palestine will likely just build up castle levels and religious buildings and not produce troops.

Antioch and Tripoli are building for trade/crops but they'd be ideal for ships.

Basic units like HA's, spears, UM's, I can produce from multiple locations and in armoured or unarmoured form. Lack of BI sources meant I've practically overbuilt these types, with enough for 3-4 of them per stack. I'm certainly in a position to begin demobilising old pez units.

Khazar cost me an embarassing defeat, on the first attempt. Useful to discover that I'm totally pants at all-cav versus all-cav battles. I'll spare the story for another thread, I think. Second attempt, just took loads of spears, suffered worse casualties than they did, but ultimately, most of their units exited the map without properly getting into the fight.

I know that it's well worth the effort, from previous incomplete campaigns. It's a right earner, with three trade goods. Unimproved lands yield 250-260, ungoverened, putting it in the same league as Greece, which I rate as being second only to Constantinople, amongst the Byz's starting provinces. A high acumen govenor pays dividends here.

Now I know you were leading towards some kind of advice and, even though I could probably manage without any (part of the challenge is working it out for oneself) that's not the same as saying that I wouldn't welcome any you cared to offer. Hopefully there's plenty of food for thought here.

Before anyone says, yes I am floating around the forum as a way of postponing the upcoming huge battle for Sicily (worth about 1788 per year to me, unless I raze it) until I've had time to think how to pull it off. The 1800+ French (including stolen Szek's) were fended off in two battles, using only a stack and a bit. This time it's Jinettes/Javs/RKs and the 8-unit garrison just wouldn't have cut it. I've bunged extra troops in but still don't really have a proper plan. Give me time.