PC Zone Preview of RTW:Barbarian Invasion

[Spartiate]

Just a few tid-bits i have just finished reading about for the Expansion Pack.

1.The Roman Empire is split into two parts.The Eastern and Western Empires.

2.The Persian Sasanid Dynasty is now a playable faction.

3.Attila the Hun and his merry men will start the campaign with 15 full armies and no settlements.They have the ability to recruit mercs and re-inforcements for plunder(sounds like the Mongols in Shogun)

4.The Saxons will specialize in coastal landing and raiding by sea.

5. The Vandals are a playable faction......no info on them.

6. The Roman Empire(both halves) are huge but rebellious and in dire straits.

7.Light troops including cavalry can now swim across rivers on the battle-field making it possible to flank units guarding a bridge.

8.Night battles are now options for experienced commanders and affect morale accordingly.

9.Composite bows available with a longer range and armour piercing early model of the x-bow.

10.Many new units and formations(couple of fantasy units as well unfortunately).

[Rodion Romanovich]

Sounds good, except no. 10b. I'm not sure about no. 7 and no. 8, but the rest sounds great.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Could i just ask, but what is the address for PC Zone? I must read this!!

[Brutus]

Sounds nice. I'm curious what all the factions will be. So far it seems there will be:

-the Western Roman Empire
-the Eastern Roman Empire
-the Sassanid Empire
-the Huns
-the Vandals
-the Saxons

Who else will be put in? The Visigoths, the Ostrogoths, the Franks, the Alans, the Suebi, the Lombards, the Burgundians, the Angles, Arab tribes...?

[Conqueror]

2.The Persian Sasanid Dynasty is now a playable faction.

Cool

3.Attila the Hun and his merry men will start the campaign with 15 full armies and no settlements.They have the ability to recruit mercs and re-inforcements for plunder(sounds like the Mongols in Shogun)

Modders are going to love this new way to handle a faction.

7.Light troops including cavalry can now swim across rivers on the battle-field making it possible to flank units guarding a bridge.

There better be some serious disadvantages to trying this though. It should take time to get across and they should be vulnerable if the enemy is prepared to attack them. Maybe have some % of the troops drown along the way. Otherwise, more options = good.

8.Night battles are now options for experienced commanders and affect morale accordingly.

I wonder if you can make a proper night raids, attacking an enemy army's camp during night when they're unprepared. If it's just like any field battle but with darkness and morale modifiers then it's not that much of an improvement.

9.Composite bows available with a longer range and armour piercing early model of the x-bow.

I think I will find good use for those, yes I will

[Es Arkajae]

"According to PC Zone Magazine Creative Assembly is working of an expansion for Rome: Total War named Barbarian Invasion add-on which will be spanning the years 364AD to 476AD.
The expansion will offer you the chance to play as one of the Barbarian factions (including the Vandals, Saxons and Huns) and take revenge against the Roman Empire, or as the Western and Eastern Roman empires attempting to drive back the Barbarians.
The PC Zone article states: "The big new feature is the addition of night-time battles, but lighter troops - including cavalry - can now also swim across rivers. There are also a load of new units to look forward to".
Beside the new features the game will come with a new distributor as Creative Assembly was bought by Sega last year and this is the first game developed under the new management."

So its only light troops can swim across rivers which make sense.

So I doubt we'll see legionairres, noble cavalry or chosen swordsmen swimming across a river anytime soon.;-) .

I'm also betting they would do it slowly and would be at a significant disadvantage (easy to panic) whilst doing so.

As for the expansion, if they don't improve the battlefield AI then its all moot, lets hope they fix that before releasing anything.

[Brutus]

So I doubt we'll see legionairres, noble cavalry or chosen swordsmen swimming across a river anytime soon.;-) .

I assume there will be no legionaries as they weren't used anymore at the time... Although, fantasy units...

[Spartiate]

@ Mikeus Caesar ............ www.pczone.co.uk...........i read it in their magazine however.

About the penalty on troops swimming across rivers.They will do so very slowly apparently and will be at the mercy of missile units.

[runes]

"Thanks to the latest issue of PC Zone magazine we can now reveal that the expansion pack will be called Rome: Total War - Barbarian Invasion and focus on the decline of the Roman Empire and the rise of the rampaging hordes.

The action of Barbarian Invasion is set after the final stages of Rome: Total War, during the period 364AD to 476AD. The once great Roman Empire is teetering on the brink of anarchy. The Eastern and Western fringes of the Empire have split and internal ructions threaten to tear it apart.







Amidst this chaos the restless barbarian tribes of Europe and the Middle East smell blood. It's time for them to rise up and reclaim the land taken from them in the name of the Emperor - or invade Europe and establish a glorious empire of their own.
Barbarian Invasion will let you take control of either the struggling Roman Empire or one of a horde of barbarian forces. If you choose Rome you'll have to repel attacks on all fronts, reunite your armies, and hold the Empire together. If you choose a barbarian force you'll have to protect your homeland while invading the territory of Rome before enemy tribes can snatch it.

Barbarian tribes such as the Vandals, the Huns and the Saxons will be playable. Each will offer a different play experience and require different tactics to succeed. The Huns, for instance, are large in number and nomadic, letting them attack quickly; while the Vandals require rapid expansion from early settlements to succeed.

All new historically-accurate units and weapons are promised for every faction, as well as the addition of morale-sapping moonlight attacks. And directing everything like a true general is Creative Assembly's awesome combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a unique exercise in brain-boggling military tactics.

The latest issue of PC Zone has much more information on Rome: Total War - Barbarian Invasion, including brand new screenshots and an interview with the expansion pack's producer at Creative Assembly. It's on sale now, so flank the newsagent at will."

pulled that from the website...

but..


"The latest issue of PC Zone has much more information on Rome: Total War - Barbarian Invasion, including brand new screenshots and an interview with the expansion pack's producer at Creative Ass"

anyone with the mag wanna scan some pics?!

[SpencerH]

"anyone with the mag wanna scan some pics?!

Mods here have already said no to that since it's copyright infringement

[Jacque Schtrapp]

directing everything like a true general is Creative Assembly's awesome combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a unique exercise in brain-boggling military tactics.

I'll believe it when I see it

[Es Arkajae]

I assume there will be no legionaries as they weren't used anymore at the time... Although, fantasy units...

The feature will almost certainly be added to the current main campaign mate.

So you'll be able to play the expansion campaign or the original campaign with the new features such as night battles and river crossings in both.

The expansion should be as much about improving the original campaign as it is adding a new one.

As for the AI I echo Jacque's sentiment.

[Barbarossa82]

I'm all in favour of new fantasy units. no doubt there will be some RTR or EB-style mods of the x-pack for those who wish to play the game as a historical re-enactment.

Bring on the saxon steam-powered pillage-o-matic and the Eastern Roman pegasus regiment!!

[_Aetius_]

I assume there will be no legionaries as they weren't used anymore at the time

Legionaries still existed in this time period, the expansion begins before the Battle of Adrianople a time when the Legionaries were still in full usage, though its around this time that the balance between Legionaries and Auxillaries begins to rapidly disintegrate once the Eastern Roman army is annihilated at Adrianople and the Wests situation becomes terminal and beyond recovery.

The expansion sounds brilliant, id of preferred this kind of time period instead of the one in RTW originally.

[Wishazu]

the Vandals ACE!!!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

[Angry strategy gamer]You have to remember that all game reviewers are terrible at real strategy and tactics. If they aren't playing a shooter, then even the simplest actions require much thought, and flanking an enemy is a rare and great accomplishment for them.[/Angry strategy gamer]

Seriously, CA had better improve AI and modding capabilities - remove the limits to things like factions and units! There doesn't seem to be any defensible reason for them!

[_Aetius_]

I am scared that the expansion will be all looks and no depth (crap AI etc) abit like RTW itself, theres no excuse for the mistakes made in RTW, im sick of games being released and the makers clearly not testing it enough, thus forcing us, the gamer to wait months for a patch. Any idiot could surely have spotted the fact that before patch v1.2 for RTW when on bridge battles men that rout on the bridge just die as if all suddenly having a heart attack.

I have a horrible feeling the expansion will be great! until you really start playing it and all the daft idiotic bugs etc start surfacing, and then the inevitable seemingly never ending wait for a patch will begin.

[Kushan]

"And directing everything like a true general is Creative Assembly's awesome combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a unique exercise in brain-boggling military tactics"

Improved AI???? Why couldnt they just release it in the patch???? There still might be hope for the AI yet.......

Kushan

[Bhruic]

They didn't say anything about "improved" AI. They just made some generic AI statements. And they are right - it directs the battles like a true general. A true incompetent general, but a true one nonetheless.

Bh

[Crazed Rabbit]

Seriously, CA had better improve AI and modding capabilities - remove the limits to things like factions and units! There doesn't seem to be any defensible reason for them!

So they can force us to buy the expansion if we want to play mods that aren't severly limited (not to say that there aren't good ones now, but they could be even better.) of course.

Crazed Rabbit

[hrvojej]

And directing everything like a true general is Creative Assembly's awesome combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a unique exercise in brain-boggling military tactics.

Oh yeah, it's mind-boggling all right, and a unique exercise in tactics too. Just not in a positive way for the most part....

[Marquis of Roland]

[Angry strategy gamer]You have to remember that all game reviewers are terrible at real strategy and tactics. If they aren't playing a shooter, then even the simplest actions require much thought, and flanking an enemy is a rare and great accomplishment for them.[/Angry strategy gamer]

Seriously, CA had better improve AI and modding capabilities - remove the limits to things like factions and units! There doesn't seem to be any defensible reason for them!

LOL I totally agree Alexander. I've been trying to introduce this game to my first-person shooter friends and they have a hard time winning battles on EASY. Its pretty amazing, all they want to do is frontal assaults. Most of the time they turn off every single realism setting so that their haveily armored infantry are chasing down skirmishers without getting tired, or imagine this - urban cohorts with unlimited pilas!!!

Even dedicated RTS(warcraft/starcraft) players have difficulty (at least they have a hard time on MEDIUM). They expect units to turn and face a cavalry charge on their flank INSTANTANEOUSLY (and playing on huge unit size you can imagine their consternation when it takes a few seconds for that to happen, not to mention they expect their units to turn WHILE ENGAGED).

Its funny, the only people I can talk about this game to are in this forum, and from what I've seen, TW players are more intelligent and knowledgeable on average than other gamers.

As for the new expansion:
1. river crossing by light troops now available - probably won't work very well tactically. If the enemy army has any kind of cav and if your troops do indeed incur morale penalties while crossing, your light troops will never make it. They'll be charged by cav as soon as they are on the other side (I'm assuming all missile units are by the bridge defending) and because of the morale penalty, will almost certainly break and drown in the river.

2. night battles - I agree with whoever said that an encampment should be included because if its just a regular field battle in the dark with morale penalties, there's really no point.

3. If the Huns are playable, the cost of those 15 full stack armies will bankrupt you VERY VERY SOON (a la the mongols in MTW) unless you capture about as many provinces in about 5 turns or so, unless they start you with a ridiculous cash reserve.

4. They brought back the Persians. COOL

[Puzz3D]

I have a horrible feeling the expansion will be great! until you really start playing it and all the daft idiotic bugs etc start surfacing, and then the inevitable seemingly never ending wait for a patch will begin.

This won't impact sales very much as long as the first impression is good and it gets a 90%+ rating from the magazine reviews. The majority of gamers don't care about daft idiotic bugs.

[Viking]

the Vandals ACE!!!

`
Me too looking forward to the Vandals, though probably with other reasons than yours..

The Vandals fulfilled the dream the carthaginians had: chrushing the romans and use Carhago as capital.
Will the Vandals have elephants, be semi-civilized or just be the bloodthirsty barbarians they originally were?

[Orda Khan]

Neither the Vandals nor the Goths were simply bloodthirsty barbarians, they were cultured civilisations. For so called savages the Vandals produced some very ornate, intricate jewellery and the Goths went on to build some very impressive structures. These peoples were just different to the Romans and by this time the Romans, especially militarily, were heavily influenced by the Germanic nations.
Opposing armies during this period were very often quite similar in their composition. Aetius commanded an army almost entirely Hunnic to suppress the Visigoths before he commanded his Romano/Visigoth army against the Huns. This was a time of mercenaries and I hope this will be reflected in the game. Ideally (IMO) each faction should have its unique units but all/most factions should have the mercenary equivalent choice. That would not only be historically accurate but extremely interesting for both SP and MP battles.

I think I would prefer to see the Huns start WITH a settled area, as indeed they should since they settled the Hungarian plains circa 370 c.e. but we shall have to wait and see. I am looking forward to this Expansion far more than the original game and I hope CA can manage to portray the turmoil of the time. It certainly sounds a lot more interesting than a campaign adventure with Alexander, who was afterall, nothing to do with Rome

........Orda

[_Aetius_]

Neither the Vandals nor the Goths were simply bloodthirsty barbarians, they were cultured civilisations. For so called savages the Vandals produced some very ornate, intricate jewellery and the Goths went on to build some very impressive structures. These peoples were just different to the Romans and by this time the Romans, especially militarily, were heavily influenced by the Germanic nations.
Opposing armies during this period were very often quite similar in their composition. Aetius commanded an army almost entirely Hunnic to suppress the Visigoths before he commanded his Romano/Visigoth army against the Huns. This was a time of mercenaries and I hope this will be reflected in the game. Ideally (IMO) each faction should have its unique units but all/most factions should have the mercenary equivalent choice. That would not only be historically accurate but extremely interesting for both SP and MP battles.

I think I would prefer to see the Huns start WITH a settled area, as indeed they should since they settled the Hungarian plains circa 370 c.e. but we shall have to wait and see. I am looking forward to this Expansion far more than the original game and I hope CA can manage to portray the turmoil of the time. It certainly sounds a lot more interesting than a campaign adventure with Alexander, who was afterall, nothing to do with Rome

........Orda

It is a shame alot of the best sources from the period are Roman ones and as usual totally biased except a few, the Romans just seemed to fail to understand that the *barbarians* didnt want the empire destroyed they just wanted a piece of the action. The Germans depicted as lunatics who wore barely any clothes and thought of nothing but blood rape and plunder bah!

Anyway back to the expansion, im not sure if theyve chosen the best period to make a game in, I mean in the late 4th century the empires in big trouble but the situation is far from terminal. I know Adrianople is on the horizon and the situation for the empire has been much better, but if they make the expansion and the Romans are on the verge of collapse and weak then its inaccurate because the empire wasnt on the verge of collapse and if they make them really weak then itll obviously be just so its harder for the romans.

If they are relatively strong as they were in reality then, the situation is easily salvagable aslong as the player is competant. I hope they get the balance right. As 40 years or so later the empire was in real dire straits and it may have been better to set in this part of the empires history and experience the full transition of power from west to east. Maybe thatd of been a better time to set it.

A string of strong Emperors around this time could very well have salvaged the empire from the brink of destruction, its only because decent emperors were few and far between in this period that the empire sank as fast as it did. There are other factors but it was shown earlier in roman history that one man can make all the difference no matter what the situation.

I think a further expansion would be good but set in the late 5th century until say the early 7th and focus more on the rise of Byzantine empire in the wake of the wests collapse. Infact you could make an entirely new game based on the rise of the Byzantine empire until the beginning of the Medieval Total war period.

[Mongoose]

Im worried that despite the time period playing as the romans will be made painfully easy.


And the whole thing will be a total flop if they don't make the ai less timid.



"directing everything like a true general is Creative Assembly's awesome combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a unique exercise in brain-boggling military tactics." = False

"misdirecting everything like a true monkey is Creative Assembly's less then capable combat AI system, which ensures that every battle is a repetitive exercise in chasing down peltasts and killing thousands of hapless soliders" = True

This do's not hold true if they plan on changing the ai, but at this point it is most likely just talking about the current ai. Which is a shame because other then that the game is pretty solid

[avesta]

are there any details on the persian sassanid faction?

[Mongoose]

Nope, maybe in afew months.


Keep in mind the fact that this game has not even been announced yet.

[pezhetairoi]

Y'know, about what somebody posted up there about those who play FPS trying to play RTW... it's hilarious, but i know precisely what you mean. And about us forumers being more intelligent than most others, well, but of course. :-) Partially it's because some of us here are history buffs who've done enough research here (as I've read on some other threads) to be academics in their own right, and partially because what we are doing is intellectual activity, those that play FPS are just shooting shooting shooting like mindless automatons. So we hone our minds, they dull theirs. In an ethic where courage is everything, and daring to attack in the face of the enemy is the key, no wonder they can't survive in ours where there are so many things to balance, and where they're not controlling one person, but thousands, and where not every person is armed with combat knife, pistol, assault rifle, and knowledge of urban warfare.

RTW rocks as a strategy game, and BI looks to improve that experience. I am straight-facedly pretending there is no such thing as AI, because that would spoil the whole thing.

The Huns with 15 full stacks now... isn't that a little too overpowered for them? I mean, firstly the Huns only had about 200000 warriors when they poured into modern-day Hungary, and they had to get allies along the way. That translates, if the RTW scale is full-stack = 40000 men IRL, into only 5 full-stacks?