Madoc , the 1170 welsh Colony and America

[Tribesman]

Isn't there evidence that suggests the Welsh were also in Iceland ?
If the vikings can make it to Iceland then Greenland then America why could the Welsh not have done the same ?
Also , as for the St. Brendan story , Columbus visited the City of the Tribes prior to his journey to the West , it is said that his interest was in the tale of Brendan the Navigator .

Slightly off topic ,but didn't the Jews make it to America and leave something there for the Mormons to find in later years

[streety]

For those who aren't familiar with the moniker, "the City of Tribes", that Tribesman refers to, is a nickname of Galway City in the west of Ireland. Yes, its said Columbus went there, and he could well have, for Galway certainly had links with Spain. But the tale of St Brendan the Navigator would have long been popular around Europe for hundreds of years anyway - being written in the 10th or 11th century, about a traveller called St Brendan in the 7th century (though it was possibly a collation of several different travelling monks' accounts). So, Columbus' visit to Galway wasn't necessary, and could be be just one of those mythic inventions, but then he got around a bit, and could have gone to Galway for any number of other work reasons, so who knows....

The Vikings (on arriving in the 870s) found hermit monks and Irish books, so the assumption's been that they were Irish monks, but with the acceptance that they could just have been Welsh. There's no other records of the Welsh going to Iceland at this time that I know of, but perhaps they did. Is Madoc supposed to have gone there? Not sure what this Jews/America/Mormons thing is that you mention - could you spell it out for me - I'm probably on the wrong track.

For those interested in the Richard Ameryk, maps, and the naming of America, there's a good link with several further links of its own here:
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/enc...rd_Amerike.htm
Enjoy,
Streety

[Tribesman]

Streety ;
Not sure what this Jews/America/Mormons thing is that you mention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeo...Book_of_Mormon

[streety]

Cheers Tribesman - thats an excellent link debating the Mormon stuff. Gee, I didn't realise that it was such a big topic

Back to my earlier comments: Brutus - I may have to retract my statement that housing and crop growing were around for at least a thousand years before Quetzalcoatl if you are refering to the deity rather than one of the later rulers of the same name.

Anyway, regarding Amerigo Vespucci having made it all up (some academics nowadays consider that he never went anywhere at all!), heres a good link:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...erigo-Vespucci
And for the Vikings in L'Anse Aux Meadows, there are several sites, but try:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...women_04.shtml
And for yet more on Ameryk, Cabot and the naming of America, another five page-long BBC History effort has been made:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/discove...aname_01.shtml


Adios

[RickOsmon]

I just completed a book about Madoc et al, entitled Graves of the Golden Bear; Ancient Monuments and Fortresses of the Ohio Valley.

It will be on Amazon Kindle, Barnes & Noble, and Smashwords by October 15th.

One hint: The 1170 date is a different Madoc /Madog/Maddaug than the one in America. He was much earlier.

Streety, if you're still around, have you ever read Alan Wilson's take on the chronicles?

[gaelic cowboy]

some Papal saint figure coming to America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB2EsZhzVtE It can be and has been done my good man

[Rhyfelwyr]

Interesting thread. I always thought that the stories about the Welsh and Irish in America were myths, although the same was said for the Vikings not that long ago.

I've also heard claims that Africans may have reached the Americas prior to Columbus, if not the Vikings. Such are the things you learn when you get bored and travel through Wikipedia:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Proposed claims for an African presence in Mesoamerica rest on attributes of the Olmec culture, the presence of an African plant species in the Americas, and interpretations of certain European and Arabic historical accounts.

The Olmec culture existed from roughly 1200 BCE to 400 BCE. The idea that the Olmecs are related to Africans was suggested by José Melgar, who discovered the first colossal head at Hueyapan (now Tres Zapotes) in 1862.[66] More recently, Ivan van Sertima has argued that these statues depict settlers or explorers from Africa, but his views have been the target of severe scholarly criticism.[67]

North African sources describe what some consider to be visits to the New World by a Mali fleet in 1311.[68] According to these sources, 400 ships from the Mali Empire discovered a land across the ocean to the West after being swept off course by ocean currents. Only one ship returned, and the captain reported the discovery of a western current to Prince Abubakari II; the off-course Mali fleet of 400 ships is said to have conducted both trade and warfare with the peoples of the western lands. It is claimed that Abubakari II abdicated his throne and set off to explore these western lands. In 1324, the Mali king Mansa Musa is said to have told the Arabic historian, Al-Umari that "his predecessors had launched two expeditions from West Africa to discover the limits of the Atlantic Ocean."

According to the abstract of Columbus' log made by Bartolomé de las Casas, the purpose of Columbus’ third voyage was to test both the claims of King John II of Portugal that “canoes had been found which set out from the coast of Guinea [West Africa] and sailed to the west with merchandise” as well as the claims of the native inhabitants of Hispaniola that “from the south and the southeast had come black people whose spears were made of a metal called guanín...from which it was found that of 32 parts: 18 were gold, 6 were silver, and 8 copper.”

Also, we always talk about Europeans discovering America, but let's not forget the Americans who discovered Europe (or at least, Europeans).