Dread

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I never really paid attention to this attribute, mainly just read all the descriptions once. How does it really affect gameplay? Is it a significant factor in anything?

[Martok]

The short answer? Dread impacts the game directly only when in regards to your governors, officeholders (Chamberlain, Chief Eunuch, etc.), and your faction leader. For example, if a governor has high dread, his province will have a better loyalty rating, as they will fear him more (or all your provinces, if we're talking about your faction leader).

As for indirect effects, your governors and generals can gain traits that will increase or lower their dread. In turn, these traits can affect not only your provinces' happiness (depending on which governor has which trait); but in the case of generals, can also affect an army's morale.

Take the Butcher trait, for example. It increases a general/governor's dread, but it decreases the morale of the troops under that general's command (as they get less ransom money and/or they are appalled at your general's bloodthirstiness). For another example, look at the Chivalrous trait (I believe that's the one I'm thinking of); it lowers dread, but increases both the morale of troops under his command, and his province's happiness (if he's a governor as well).

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ok, I figured it increased loyalty and had sopme drawbacks, but I have never really noticed it having a substantial impact on the game.

[Martok]

Aside from your provinces' loyalty, dread doesn't have a major impact, no. But it does add some nice flavor to the game, and adds a bit of character to your governors and generals.

[BAD]

Aye. My heir was lacking in a few departments namely Dread and Command (2 dread and 0 Command). So I sent him on a mission now he's got 3 stars, Expert Defender, Skilled Attacker, Scant Mercy, The Butcher and Great Warrior. Nice!

EDIT - I wondered why the rest of my message got missed off. . . It seems that removing the "Greater than Dot Less than" smiley seems to have gotten rid of the glitch though. . .

[Martok]

Aye. My heir was lacking in a few departments namely Dread and Command (2 dread and 0 Command)

Egad, sounds like your boy spent his youth writing too much poetry.

[Etym]

Has anyone noticed that some factions seem to attract "dreadful" leaders? The Muslims in general rarely show more than 2 skulls when I'm playing them, while the Byzantines (who undoubtedly consider themselves more "civilized") rarely show less than 3.

[Martok]

Has anyone noticed that some factions seem to attract "dreadful" leaders? The Muslims in general rarely show more than 2 skulls when I'm playing them, while the Byzantines (who undoubtedly consider themselves more "civilized") rarely show less than 3.

Yes, I've noticed this as well. The English and Spanish both tend to produce princes with some pretty high dread too, but the Byzantines are the best (or worst, depending on your point of view!). Whenever I play as the Egyptians (which is pretty often), I try to take out the Byz as quickly as possible, just for that reason. It's simply scary how many "uber-generals" they tend to spit out if left unchecked.

And yes, Muslim generals (at least the Turks and Egyptians) tend to have relatively low dread. I think this is supposed to reflect that Muslim commanders from the Medieval period are seen (at least by history) as generally being more genteel and merciful than their European counterparts; quite a few of my Egyptian captains have a tendency to acquire the Honorable and/or Chivalrous traits.

The Almohads are a bit different, however. Their generals tend to be a bit more skilled, as well as a bit more ruthless! I would actually group them with Spain and England (and the Byz, of course) as being another faction that produces princes with high dread.

[Etym]

Muslim generals (at least the Turks and Egyptians) tend to have relatively low dread. I think this is supposed to reflect that Muslim commanders from the Medieval period are seen (at least by history) as generally being more genteel and merciful than their European counterparts.

I note the qualifier: "seen (at least by history) as . . . more genteel and merciful." Judging by the (European) propaganda of the times, however, those heathen Muslims would make Vlad the Impaler look like a sissy. And how about those Poles? I'm reconciled to the fact that they're all gonna be morons, but they should at least be SCARY morons!

Then again (a bit OT here), current propaganda regarding the Muslims isn't too realistic, either . . . .

[DisruptorX]

Minor nitpick, but they didn't have "propaganda" back then. You can't have propaganda without some way to mass produce images, words, or ideas.

[Etym]

Minor nitpick, but they didn't have "propaganda" back then. You can't have propaganda without some way to mass produce images, words, or ideas.

I was thinking of churches.

[DisruptorX]

I was thinking of churches.

You might get some flak for that one.

[Deus Ex]

actually, the church was the master of propaganda...



DE

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I agree with Deus Ex, the churches were propaganda. A lot of the time they were in a town to exploit (the paying for a seat in heaven that Martin Luther opposed) or brainwash the citizens (crusades, anti-muslim/protestant/jew speahces or sermons).

[Martok]

I note the qualifier: "seen (at least by history) as . . . more genteel and merciful." Judging by the (European) propaganda of the times, however, those heathen Muslims would make Vlad the Impaler look like a sissy. And how about those Poles? I'm reconciled to the fact that they're all gonna be morons, but they should at least be SCARY morons!

Then again (a bit OT here), current propaganda regarding the Muslims isn't too realistic, either . . . .

Actually, I meant that Muslim nobles are generally viewed this way by today's historians as being more honorable and more civil than the nobles of Medieval Europe. I agree with you, however, in that I'm sure Pope Urban & Co. didn't see the Muslims that way back in 1095.....

[Etym]

I meant that Muslim nobles are generally viewed this way by today's historians as being more honorable and more civil than the nobles of Medieval Europe.

Actually, that's what I thought you meant. I guess my comment wasn't too clear, though.

[mikkele]

Minor nitpick, but they didn't have "propaganda" back then. You can't have propaganda without some way to mass produce images, words, or ideas.

Oh, yes you can. The favorite method of the day was paid informers and agents spreading false information and slander in public places, such as markets, inns, etc. As others have indicated, the Christian clergy did also participate in this as well (one of the most notorious being Saint Bernard of Clairvaux).

I guess that your notion of "propaganda" would be thousands of leaflets being dropped over a hostile cities, or the Voice of America radio station, but the medieval way was every bit as effective.

Re. the high dread ratings for Byz generals, then I believe that there's ample historical justification for that. George Maniakes, for instance, was reported to have a serious "anger management" problem, and was responsible for several atrocities during his campain in southern Italy.

[Martok]

Actually, that's what I thought you meant. I guess my comment wasn't too clear, though.

Eh, no worries. I'm always misinterpreting things people say anyway.....

[Deus Ex]

Oh, yes you can. The favorite method of the day was paid informers and agents spreading false information and slander in public places, such as markets, inns, etc. As others have indicated, the Christian clergy did also participate in this as well (one of the most notorious being Saint Bernard of Clairvaux).

Indeed, besides the church, which had the perfect distributed infrastructure in place to disburse coordinated information - it would be a very poor (and soon dead or unemployed) spymaster that did not have his own network for disbursing rumors and innuendo to influence public/politics etc.

It is not only critical to have agents to gather "information" - it is necessary to have agents to disburse/influence/spread "information" - doctored, concocted, trutheful, or otherwise shaped to your needs

DE