Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 70

Thread: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

  1. #1
    Prematurely Anti-Fascist Senior Member Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    956

    Default More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Here's an interesting story. A new study indicates that the brains of gay men react to human pheromones in the same way that women's brains do. Read on, MacDuff.

    NYT May 10, 2005

    For Gay Men, an Attraction to a Different Kind of Scent
    By NICHOLAS WADE

    Using a brain imaging technique, Swedish researchers have shown that homosexual and heterosexual men respond differently to two odors that may be involved in sexual arousal, and that the gay men respond in the same way as women.

    The new research may open the way to studying human pheromones, as well as the biological basis of sexual preference. Pheromones, chemicals emitted by one individual to evoke some behavior in another of the same species, are known to govern sexual activity in animals, but experts differ as to what role, if any, they play in making humans sexually attractive to one another.

    The new research, which supports the existence of human pheromones, is reported in today's issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by Dr. Ivanka Savic and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm.

    The two chemicals in the study were a testosterone derivative produced in men's sweat and an estrogen-like compound in women's urine, both of which have long been suspected of being pheromones.

    Most odors cause specific smell-related regions of the human brain to light up when visualized by a form of brain imaging that tracks blood flow in the brain and therefore, by inference, sites where neurons are active. Several years ago, Dr. Savic and colleagues showed that the two chemicals activated the brain in a quite different way from ordinary scents.

    The estrogen-like compound, though it activated the usual smell-related regions in women, lighted up the hypothalamus in men. This is a region in the central base of the brain that governs sexual behavior and, through its control of the pituitary gland lying just beneath it, the hormonal state of the body.

    The male sweat chemical, on the other hand, did just the opposite; it activated mostly the hypothalamus in women and the smell-related regions in men. The two chemicals seemed to be leading a double life, playing the role of odor with one sex and of pheromone with another.

    The Swedish researchers have now repeated the experiment but with the addition of gay men as a third group. The gay men responded to the two chemicals in the same way as did women, Dr. Savic reports, as if the hypothalamus's response is determined not by biological sex but by the owner's sexual orientation.

    Dr. Savic said that she had also studied gay women, but that the data were "somewhat complicated" and not yet ready for publication.

    The finding is similar to a report in 1991 by Dr. Simon LeVay that a small region of the hypothalamus is twice as large in straight men as in women or gay men. The brain scanning technique used by the Swedish researchers lacks the resolution to see the region studied by Dr. LeVay, which is a mere millimeter or so across. But both findings suggest that the hypothalamus is organized in a way related to sexual orientation.

    The new finding, if confirmed, would break ground in two important directions, those of human pheromones and human sexuality.

    Mice are known to influence each other's sexual behavior through emission of chemicals that act like hormones on the recipient's brain and so are known as pheromones. Hopes by the fragrance industry, among others, of finding human pheromones were dashed several years ago when it emerged that a tiny structure in the nose through which mice detect many pheromones, the vomeronasal organ, is largely inactive in humans, having lost its nervous connection with the brain.

    Researchers interpreted that to mean that humans, as they evolved to rely on sight more than smell, had no need of the primitive cues that pass for sexual attractiveness in mice. But a role for human pheromones could not be ruled out, especially in light of findings that women living or working together tend to synchronize their menstrual cycles.

    Some researchers see Dr. Savic's work as strong evidence in favor of human pheromones. "The question of whether human pheromones exist has been answered. They do," wrote the authors of a commentary in Neuron about Dr. Savic's report of 2001.

    Dr. Catherine Dulac, a Harvard University biologist who studies pheromones in mice, said that if a chemical modified the function of the hypothalamus, that might be enough to regard it as a pheromone. She said the Swedish study was extremely interesting, even though "humans are a terrible experimental subject." She noted, however, that the researchers used a far higher dose of the armpit chemical than anyone would be exposed to in normal life.

    If human pheromones do exist, Dr. Savic's approach may allow insights into how the brain is organized not just for sexual orientation but also for sexuality in general.

    "The big question is not where homosexuality comes from, but where does sexuality come from," said Dr. Dean Hamer, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health.

    The different pattern of activity that Dr. Savic sees in the brains of gay men could be either a cause of their sexual orientation or an effect of it. If sexual orientation has a genetic cause, or is influenced by hormones in the womb or at puberty, then the neurons in the hypothalamus could wire themselves up in a way that permanently shapes which sex a person is attracted to.

    Alternatively, Dr. Savic's finding could be just a consequence of straight and gay men's using their brain in different ways.

    "We cannot tell if the different pattern is cause or effect," Dr. Savic said. "The study does not give any answer to these crucial questions."

    But the technique might provide an answer, Dr. Hamer noted, if it were applied to people of different ages to see when in life the different pattern of response developed.

    Dr. LeVay said he believed from animal experiments that the size differences in the hypothalamic region he had studied arose before birth, perhaps in response to differences in the circulating level of sex hormones. Both his finding and Dr. Savic's suggest that the hypothalamus is specifically organized in relation to sexual orientation, he said.

    Some researchers believe there is likely to be a genetic component of homosexuality because of its concordance among twins. The occurrence of male homosexuality in both members of a twin pair is 22 percent in nonidentical twins but rises to 52 percent in identical twins.

    Gay men have fewer children, meaning that in Darwinian terms, any genetic variant that promotes homosexuality should be quickly eliminated from the population. Dr. Hamer believes that such genes may nevertheless persist because, although in men they reduce the number of descendants, in women they act to increase fertility.

  2. #2
    MasterJian Member TheJian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Clinton TWP Michigan
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Could that be why thay are gay?.......I would have given them that info for half the cost...
    All Faith is false all faith is true. Truth is the shattered mirrors strewn In myriad bits; While each believes his little bit the whole to own. From The kasidah of Haji Abu el-Yezdi

  3. #3
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    I think gayness is a mental hormonal disorder. It doesn't make sense for someone to be choosing to be gay nor that they are born gay. I think drugs will one day be able to fix this bug(sounding like a TW modder there).

  4. #4
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    7,237

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    I think gayness is a mental hormonal disorder. It doesn't make sense for someone to be choosing to be gay nor that they are born gay. I think drugs will one day be able to fix this bug(sounding like a TW modder there).
    i partially agree with you
    i believe that it is a choice that is easier to be made by some than others

    i, personally, get turned on by anything that is capable of playing with my mister happy

    there are certain things that i try to make as un-appealing as possible due to my "morals"

    i welcome any attempt to find a biological link to homosexuality
    i,however, have seen no strong evidence that it is biological and much more evidence (even personally) that it is a choice that is addictive and can take the place of natural heterosexual desires.

    but im no scientist
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  5. #5
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,670

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Dr. Hamer believes that such genes may nevertheless persist because, although in men they reduce the number of descendants, in women they act to increase fertility.
    This is an interesting part. Genes have to make the most of what body they are in. Male/Female, Child/Adult.

    So if the increase in fertility in females is equal to or greater then the decrease in fertility in males then those genes have a chance to propagate.

    Essentially these are female biased genes. They want to mate with a male, produce children and they are more fertile to boot. However slip them into a male and you have someone who wants to mate with a male, produce children and the are obviously at this point unable to have children.

    Another version is possible of the female biased genes. If they also increased fertility in males proportionally more then it increased the chances of being gay. If that was the case it would spread through the population.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  6. #6
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    OB
    Posts
    3,752

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    ... so are you saying that women are driving men to gayness????

    well, i used to be a scientist.. but not a behavioral biologist, geneticist, nor neuroscientist... anyway i'm sure drugs can be developed that change our behaviors in ways much more drastic than simply switching our sexualities. i don't see a huge amount of difference between sexual preference being biologically determined and saying that it's a hormonal disorder. from what i understand, the body's hormonal environment is at least partly tied to gene expression. and yes, i said "hormonal environment".



    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  7. #7
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    9,748

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    i, personally, get turned on by anything that is capable of playing with my mister happy
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when were half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  8. #8

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.
    No it's not.

    The different pattern of activity that Dr. Savic sees in the brains of gay men could be either a cause of their sexual orientation or an effect of it. If sexual orientation has a genetic cause, or is influenced by hormones in the womb or at puberty, then the neurons in the hypothalamus could wire themselves up in a way that permanently shapes which sex a person is attracted to.

    Alternatively, Dr. Savic's finding could be just a consequence of straight and gay men's using their brain in different ways.
    Don't shout, I'm just saying, I don't really care either way.

  9. #9
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Id like to know at what age this can be seen at. Can it be seen from birth or did they test known gay men. Isnt it possible that this something the body developes because of acting gay? If its there as a baby we could then diagnose people who are gay at a very young age and tell the parents so they dont put pressure on the child to be straight. So far this proves nothing.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  10. #10
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Aachen
    Posts
    5,181

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Id like to know at what age this can be seen at. Can it be seen from birth or did they test known gay men. Isnt it possible that this something the body developes because of acting gay? If its there as a baby we could then diagnose people who are gay at a very young age and tell the parents so they dont put pressure on the child to be straight. So far this proves nothing.
    I agree with that. We would need to know when this distinction develops. Though I want to point out that we can diagnose people who are gay at a very young age.

  11. #11
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Dn Dagh, the People's Republic of Scotland, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Posts
    2,783

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    I always thought that gayness was something to do with too many hormones of the wrong persuasion affecting the brain...
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  12. #12
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    3,029

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Poor gays, now their hormons are on trial........

  13. #13
    Prematurely Anti-Fascist Senior Member Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    956

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    On the issue of the direction of cause and effect in this study...

    The author of the study, Dr. Savic did note that:

    The different pattern of activity that Dr. Savic sees in the brains of gay men could be either a cause of their sexual orientation or an effect of it. If sexual orientation has a genetic cause, or is influenced by hormones in the womb or at puberty, then the neurons in the hypothalamus could wire themselves up in a way that permanently shapes which sex a person is attracted to.

    Alternatively, Dr. Savic's finding could be just a consequence of straight and gay men's using their brain in different ways.
    Dr. Savic isn't willing to rule out the idea that the different patterns of activity could be due to behavioral differences.

    However, in the next line we read:

    Dr. LeVay said he believed from animal experiments that the size differences in the hypothalamic region he had studied arose before birth, perhaps in response to differences in the circulating level of sex hormones. Both his finding and Dr. Savic's suggest that the hypothalamus is specifically organized in relation to sexual orientation, he said.
    The existence of hypothalamic size differences before birth (and therefore before there would be any opportunity to exhibit homosexual behavior by choice) would seem to indicate that what we are dealing with here are biological differences that develop in vitro, rather than structural differences that develop due to behavior later in life.

    If this is true, and homosexual men are simply men who are born possessing physical brain structures and hormonal responses that attract them to men, then homosexuality is not a moral choice anymore than our heterosexuality is a moral choice. They simply are gay in the same sense that black people are black. The only choice made than is whether they are true to their own sexual programming, or whether they choose to "pass" as a heterosexual in the same way that some mulatos used to pass as white.

    Of course, in addition to those people who are simply wired a particular way 'in vitro', there may be some who develop elements of their sexual tastes during their formative years. Just as with any fetish, it might be possible to 'learn' to be excited by homosexual behavior if one were introduced to it during ones early years. Everyone has their particular sexual kinks and it seems unlikely that they are all biologically determined. Something of that kind must have happened amongst the Spartans, and in other societies where homosexual behavior was relatively common.

    However, we've all met people who acted REALLY gay from an early age. In those cases, where behavior and the whole aspect of the personality predates adolescence, I'd be inclined to conclude that the homosexuality in question HAS to be biological in origin.

  14. #14
    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Yurp
    Posts
    529

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelian
    They simply are gay in the same sense that black people are black. The only choice made than is whether they are true to their own sexual programming, or whether they choose to "pass" as a heterosexual in the same way that some mulatos used to pass as white.
    Good comparison. In "The Second Racist Crackpot Church" they routinely pray for black people to be cured.
    Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
    Paul Peru: Holier than thy bucket!

  15. #15
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The base of Yggdrasil
    Posts
    3,710

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    I love the use of all the conditionals: might, may, could etc. Since it seems that 'is' is being conflated as an 'ought' I assume any similar data for incest, polygamy and pederasty would be equally embraced. It's just like skin pigment I hear. The logical flaws never end.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  16. #16
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Aachen
    Posts
    5,181

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    I love the use of all the conditionals: might, may, could etc. Since it seems that 'is' is being conflated as an 'ought' I assume any similar data for incest, polygamy and pederasty would be equally embraced. It's just like skin pigment I hear. The logical flaws never end.
    There is evidence in abundance that the main factor for incest is severe childhood misadaptation. The causes for pederasty are less clear, but genetic influences may play a role. Polygamy is just a cultural thing.
    I'm not certain who confused 'is' and 'ought' here, it seemed to me that we're discussing a scientific topic here and not an ethical one. I for one think the causal basis of homosexuality is an interesting subject.

  17. #17
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Id like to know at what age this can be seen at. Can it be seen from birth or did they test known gay men. Isnt it possible that this something the body developes because of acting gay? If its there as a baby we could then diagnose people who are gay at a very young age and tell the parents so they dont put pressure on the child to be straight. So far this proves nothing.
    My mother said she knew my brother was gay when he was three years old.

    Mothers are smarter than any scientist ever invented.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  18. #18
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The base of Yggdrasil
    Posts
    3,710

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
    There is evidence in abundance that the main factor for incest is severe childhood misadaptation. The causes for pederasty are less clear, but genetic influences may play a role. Polygamy is just a cultural thing.
    I'm not certain who confused 'is' and 'ought' here, it seemed to me that we're discussing a scientific topic here and not an ethical one. I for one think the causal basis of homosexuality is an interesting subject.
    The main factor for incest is "severe childhood misadaptation"? Is that the explanation for the Ancient Egyptian practice? Does this mean there is no biological component, or that if there were, one would still see the practice as a negative.

    Polygamy is just cultural? Most would agree the standard man desires or has an inclination for multiple partners. It seems the argument surrounding gay lifestyles typically starts with an inclination for same gender partners. From this, the question arose about biological determination. If so, wouldn't it also be reasonable to explore other sexual impulses along similar lines? In the U.S. the sexual rhetoric is that biology equals acceptability. Based on that position: other normally understood deviant behaviors would also be redeemed.

    If the topic is just 'scientific' by which I assume it means: simple biological causality, then I assume desirability or justification is not on the table. Got it.

    I think the causal basis is also interesting.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  19. #19
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Until a baby falls out of some homosexuals anus, homosexuality is not normal, no matter what liberal wet dream you wake up from.
    RIP Tosa

  20. #20
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    Until a baby falls out of some homosexuals anus, homosexuality is not normal, no matter what liberal wet dream you wake up from.
    *splirt*

  21. #21
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    London, England.
    Posts
    11,058

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    Until a baby falls out of some homosexuals anus, homosexuality is not normal, no matter what liberal wet dream you wake up from.
    Why does having a baby = humanity and 'normality' - whatever that is! Do women who cannot give birth be charged as abnormal? Disturbing point of view Dave.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  22. #22
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Why does having a baby = humanity and 'normality' - whatever that is! Do women who cannot give birth be charged as abnormal? Disturbing point of view Dave.
    Not as disturbing as someone that considers having sex in orafices that shit pummels out of "normal".
    RIP Tosa

  23. #23
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Do women who cannot give birth be charged as abnormal?
    Well they are arent they?

    My mother said she knew my brother was gay when he was three years old.
    She knew he had this Pheromones thing going on. I doubt it. They dont even know. he question was when could you notice this not when do you notice their gay.

    Mothers are smarter than any scientist ever invented.
    Depends on the mom and the scientist. I believ that a mother could drive her child to be gay just by believing that they were born gay and treating them that way. This is why teaching that gay is ok is dangerous. Of course this is only my opinion. Its one thing to say dont look down on or bash gays . Its an entirely another matter to say that gay is normal just like heterosexuality and has just as much validity as far as behavior goes.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  24. #24
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Aachen
    Posts
    5,181

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    The main factor for incest is "severe childhood misadaptation"? Is that the explanation for the Ancient Egyptian practice? Does this mean there is no biological component, or that if there were, one would still see the practice as a negative.
    When we speak of incest, we usually mean sexual abuse within the family. Although also called incest, the Ancient Egyptian regal tradition of kin marriage is something conceptual different that shouldn't play a role in this discussion. Generally, I think the causal explanation shouldn't affect the evaluation of a phenomenon. We should avoid naturalistic fallacies.

    Polygamy is just cultural? Most would agree the standard man desires or has an inclination for multiple partners. It seems the argument surrounding gay lifestyles typically starts with an inclination for same gender partners. From this, the question arose about biological determination. If so, wouldn't it also be reasonable to explore other sexual impulses along similar lines? In the U.S. the sexual rhetoric is that biology equals acceptability. Based on that position: other normally understood deviant behaviors would also be redeemed.
    Polygamy doesn't necessary have anything to do with sexual impulses. The fact that in some cultures polygamy is normal, while in others not, can hardly be attributed to biological determination, thus it's cultural. That also doesn't necessary mean men in monogamous cultures have less sexual partners.
    Any rhetoric that biology equals acceptability is of course fallacious, just as the opposite. My argument would rather be that homosexuality isn't deviant at all, just an example of diversity, independently of the cause.

  25. #25

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    I think gayness is a mental hormonal disorder. It doesn't make sense for someone to be choosing to be gay nor that they are born gay. I think drugs will one day be able to fix this bug(sounding like a TW modder there).
    But if it occurs naturally, can it really be considered a bug?

  26. #26
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The base of Yggdrasil
    Posts
    3,710

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
    When we speak of incest, we usually mean sexual abuse within the family. Although also called incest, the Ancient Egyptian regal tradition of kin marriage is something conceptual different that shouldn't play a role in this discussion. Generally, I think the causal explanation shouldn't affect the evaluation of a phenomenon. We should avoid naturalistic fallacies.
    Incest is sex with close relatives. The label applies when and where it occurs. Investingating a biological component to the phenomena should be possible with this as with any other sexual activity.

    Naturalistic fallacy question begging isn't an issue.



    Polygamy doesn't necessary have anything to do with sexual impulses. The fact that in some cultures polygamy is normal, while in others not, can hardly be attributed to biological determination, thus it's cultural. That also doesn't necessary mean men in monogamous cultures have less sexual partners.
    Polygamy has nothing to do with sexual impluse? Amazing.


    Any rhetoric that biology equals acceptability is of course fallacious, just as the opposite. My argument would rather be that homosexuality isn't deviant at all, just an example of diversity, independently of the cause.
    I don't know how your using deviant.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

  27. #27
    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Munich...I wish...
    Posts
    4,788

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    This thread is funny.
    Kudos.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  28. #28
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Aachen
    Posts
    5,181

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Incest is sex with close relatives. The label applies when and where it occurs. Investingating a biological component to the phenomena should be possible with this as with any other sexual activity.
    Certainly. But all things the label applies to are not equal. Causal investigation for one underlying concept are irrelevant for another. Egyptian customs nonwithstanding, the accepted explanation for sexual abuse within the family is childhood misadaptation.

    Polygamy has nothing to do with sexual impluse? Amazing.
    Not directly, no. Ask bmolsson.

    I don't know how your using deviant.
    For psychologists, deviant usually includes a negative evaluation. Mountain climbing for example is uncommon behaviour, but not deviant.

  29. #29
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    7,237

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
    For psychologists, deviant usually includes a negative evaluation. Mountain climbing for example is uncommon behaviour, but not deviant.
    we are not psychologists
    we are lay people

    you people need to come up with your own words - because you use them incorrectly


    deviant:
    Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

    n.
    One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/deviant

    www.dictionary.com/deviant


    *********************************



    you may argue that homosexuality is not "wrong" but IT IS DEFIANTLY DEVIANT

    to say otherwise is misleading and shows a poor understanding of the definition of the word

    we have a lexicon for a reason

    please abide by it so that you do not confuse patrons
    they will spout off the same foolishness



    mountainclimbing, i guess, would be "informally deviant"
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 05-14-2005 at 23:39.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  30. #30
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: More evidence of a biological basis for homosexuality.

    Anyone one here of any babies popping out of the butt of anyone yet? Guess its still not a natural thing, let me know when that baby comes out. Libs, make sure you don't abort the evidence...
    RIP Tosa

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO