Abu Graib Prison Scandel Update

**Hurin_Rules** · 05-11-2005, 18:19

I'd like to see what an independent investigation would conclude. This is an internal investigation and of course the investigators are not going to condemn their own bosses.

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 05-11-2005, 18:23

I'd like to see what an independent investigation would conclude. This is an internal investigation and of course the investigators are not going to condemn their own bosses.

Oh you mean like the UN and the oil for food scandal.

**Hurin_Rules** · 05-11-2005, 18:42

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Oh you mean like the UN and the oil for food scandal.

Yes, exactly. Independent investigations are needed in both cases.

**Redleg** · 05-11-2005, 19:03

Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

I'd like to see what an independent investigation would conclude. This is an internal investigation and of course the investigators are not going to condemn their own bosses.

Then you don't know General Tajibu (SP) very well - he answered to the Chief of Staff of the Army - who controled two levels above all the other generals in the scandel.

However I would not mind an independent investigation to insure that everyone responsible for the wrong doing is held responsible.

And it should be done by the United States Congress - which has the obligation and the responsibility to monitor the conduct of the military.

**Hurin_Rules** · 05-11-2005, 19:29

Originally Posted by Redleg

Then you don't know General Tajibu (SP) very well - he answered to the Chief of Staff of the Army - who controled two levels above all the other generals in the scandel.

Yes, but of course Bush, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez are all above or outside of this chain too, no?

However I would not mind an independent investigation to insure that everyone responsible for the wrong doing is held responsible.

And it should be done by the United States Congress - which has the obligation and the responsibility to monitor the conduct of the military.

Here we are in agreement. Justice must not only be done, but must also be SEEN to be done.

See Redleg, we could get things done in a bipartisan fashion if we were in congress. Why don't we both run for office?

**Redleg** · 05-11-2005, 19:35

Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

Yes, but of course Bush, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez are all above or outside of this chain too, no?

He did not have the authority or the responsiblity to investigate that aspect - his investigation focused on the actual places of the event.

Bush, Rumsfeld and Gonzales must be investigated by Congress because they are civilian leaders of the military - miltary officers do not have the authority to investigate civilians - there is federal law on this.

Here we are in agreement. Justice must not only be done, but must also be SEEN to be done.

And that is why I posted the article - Justice is being done - but seems to be ignored by some media sources - is it complete - no I dont believe so. But visiablity of this should be just as important of a news item as the actual scandel was. However I don't see this making the front page of any paper here in the United States.

See Redleg, we could get things done in a bipartisan fashion if we were in congress. Why don't we both run for office?

I am not corrupt enought to be a professional politian - and often speak very bluntly when in conversations - to bluntly sometimes.

**Productivity** · 05-12-2005, 02:37

Originally Posted by Redleg

And that is why I posted the article - Justice is being done - but seems to be ignored by some media sources - is it complete - no I dont believe so. But visiablity of this should be just as important of a news item as the actual scandel was. However I don't see this making the front page of any paper here in the United States.

I remember around last friday, it was on the fron page of the Reuters site. Let me just go and dig up the link (*says thankyou to Karpinski for having an easily searchable name*).

Link

I'm not sure how much coverage it received otherwise though.

**bmolsson** · 05-12-2005, 05:24

Actually I don't think anything matters in this. The gloves are already off. Terrorists will know what is expected and don't really care. Military on the ground will shoot before they ask. The loser will be any poor bastard being at the wrong place at the wrong time........

**Steppe Merc** · 05-12-2005, 13:27

Well, this is positive. I wish I knew what the hell admistrative punishment was. To me, some of the punishments weren't really strong enough, but I know nothing of the military, and if having a letter of repremand really means something, then that's good. If they didn't speak so vaguley about what will happen, I'd think people would appreciate it more.

But I do think that Congress should investagate, and it would be best to also have an outside investigation as well, just to insure everyone is punished that deserves to. And while it's good that they got a General, I don't get the feeling that being a General of Army Reserve is that impressive...