Hardest Factions?

[Diehard_TH]

Hi guys,

Currently playing French, Early, Hard and seem to be having an easy time of it........although the GH is due soon

What factions, eras is generally reckoned to be the hardest? I've seen lots of advice about which faction to start with but not much on which faction the veteran generals are playing.

I was thinking trying Almos or Turks but the guides seem to rate these as fairly straight forward.

I'd prefer an early era campaign as i like to 'custom' build my empire but i may be missing the most challenging factions if they start in Late or High eras.

Your thoughts would be much appreaciated.

[tigger_on_vrb]

I think the hardest factions are the Polish and the Aragonese. Mostly because of your tiny starting empires and competition for rebel provinces with other factions.

Particularly for the Aragonese, the first few years are more vital than for any other faction. With both though, if you DO get a good start then its easy to win before High comes along. I play expert, domination, VI, early. So I'm not sure about other settings.

The holy roman empire was a challenge too, but I actually won with them quicker than any other faction. I would recommend them though as I spent the ENITRE game at war from the first turn and was excommunicated for almost all of it too. Playing them is like riding an Exocet missile - but great fun!

[lilljonas]

The less isolated, the harder. That's my experience. Also, early is way easier than high. Also, some factions become rather crappish (almohads for example) later on, so it naturally becomes harder for them in the later ages.

On expert, I really got crushed when playing the French the first times (simultaneous attack from Germany and England within the first three turns), and both Germany, Hungary and Poland can get tough during the first turns is you get jumped.

If the Almohads didn't have their incredibly convenient position, they would be quite hard during high/late.

[ShadowMagnet]

IMHO the Turks on High come pretty close to being seriously hard. Honestly, not once have I managed to shield my lands from Egypt and Golden Horde succesfuly. Their lands are surrounded at any starting point by fairly hostile and rich empires just waiting to stomp on you. Add to that rather modest income which means you HAVE to expand somewhere and get in conflict with at least one faction and you get the picture. High seems harder than Early or Late cos:
a) your units still don't cut water like they do on Late
b) GH appear 25 years into the campaign literally right around the corner usually 2000 - 4000 men strong depending on how many soldiers are stationed in lands around Khazar
c) big christian nations somehow seem to pick on you the moment you mess with Egypt and keep sending crusade after crusade.
Among my mates finding particular faction difficult or not comes down to personal preference. Playing some factions they wipe the floor with AI whereas can't make it through first five decades playing other factions.
Plus, obviously, sometimes amount of bad luck you get beggars belief.
I suggest finding your own hardest faction and starting time.

[_Aetius_]

Alot of the small factions are hard in later periods especially, the general rule is the further east on the map you are the harder it is later in the game with the exception of Egypt.

A great challenge is trying in the high or late period to bring Byzantium back to the glory of the early period on extreme, best campaign if you want a fun challenge I think.

The turks are very hard in the high period, tiny territory, no provinces that trade by sea, tiny economy, no loyalty, and the golden horde behind you, its near impossible to survive.

[Productivity]

Try the Sicillians. While are pretty well protected, you have to take on a large empire to get anything, and it is very easy for you to get cut off.

[noodle]

I gotta agree with tigger on this. HRE Late is like playing on rocket fuel. Within a few turns almost eveyone is piling into you and it never lets up. I am playing with MedMod installed though so can't speak for vanilla MTW.

I've played the Sicillians and the Danes and I didn't find them nearly as hard. Took most of england with the danes and then it became a breeze and with the sicilians - after being beaten back to a single province and within a whisker of going under - I still rebuilt and then blew away allcomers.

I've yet to play any off the muslim factions (despite being 3 years in!) and that's something I'm gonna go for next. It's amazing just how much replayability there is to this game!

Oh, I also used to play Early for the same reasons you give, but over the last 12 months or so I've switched to Late and found it more challenging. I do tend to mod the start date a little though - forward by about 30 years - just so that there's time for a meaty campaign. Even in Late there's still plenty of things to build and enough upgrades to keep you going for along while. Also, you get to mess around with gunpoweder!

[ichi]

Try Novgorod

[lilljonas]

ichi: naw, too many river crossings to lure the hapless AI into! :D

If you are bad at managing economy, Denmark will make you go broke really fast, just like for the AI. However, as soon as you get decent at economy, they're really easy, so I don't think that counts.

Since I don't really like playing with horse archers in MTW, I think Hungary are pretty hard. Crappy troops if you don't use HAs, angry neighbours and no easily defended borders or good coasts. Poland has the quite docile Russians as neightbours instead, so their position is a tad stronger, I think. Though, the short distance to Byzantium can pay off...

[ichi]

relatively poor economy, limited infantry tech, the emergence of the horde, no crusading ability, religious differences that increase rebellions in Catholic or Muslim lands, and long distances to sail to get a trade system going in the north more than outweigh a few rivers for increased defense.

IMO the Danes are the easiest faction, one chokepoint to defend and good Early units (weak cav tho).

Hungary is my favorite faction, so maybe we just see things differently

ichi

[lilljonas]

Exactly! A large chunk of the difficulty lies in how well the faction suits your best playing style. I tend to do really well strategically with the turks, but below par tactically. The hard thing for me is not the strategical position, but to get the most out of the troops.

And yes, once you get good, the Danes are really easy. However, they were also the first faction I tried so many years ago, and I got bancrupt in less than five years! But then, as a newbie, I even thought English/Early was hard...

[_Aetius_]

The sicilians are really fun to play, I think they probably have the most stable economy behind only Byzantium and the Italians.

Sicily is very rich, Naples which can be easily taken is rich, and Malta is a pretty rich province without trade. All it takes then is an invasion of North Africa and picking off of rebel and weak provinces throughout the centrel med and youll have a strong empire.

Not to mention access from behind to the holyland, its far easier launching crusades from Malta through north africa to get to Palestine instead of the usual route through Asia Minor.

Sicily are pretty easy despite what alot of people seem to say.

[Maximus the Meek]

The Aragonese in Early are pretty tough. But, if you can bribe El Cid, it makes it a lot easier, though still a rough ride.

The Turks in Early are also pretty tough. I had to try three times before I came up with a very successful strategy. The key is to start small, let egypt overextend itself into Byzintine, and then build up quick and cut them in half.

The Sicilians looks very difficult too. but I haven't tried them yet.

Turkey in High looks even more difficult then Turkey in early.

Spain is not tough, if you can bribe El Cid, he is the man ! If you don't have El Cid Spain is a lot harder, and can get very tricky.

The French are a bit tough, the morale bonus hurts early, so make sure to not use hobillars. But if you build a navy, they get very easy.

I haven't tried the Polish either, but they look very tough, they are my next effort, after I do the Turks

I play all games on Expert, VI.

Max

[Budwise]

Naw, Polish are easy. Just ally with Germany ASAP and spread east until you are against the horde later on, then go south and then west. Really easy. Your two fronts should connect in the French German starting area.

[Satyr]

I think the HRE in Medmod 3.14 is the only faction I have found that is hard even when you get good. All other factions are easy enough if you are aggressive early on. Only with the HRE does that strategy not work. With them you need to protect yourself from about 5 simultaneous attackers while you slowly take them all over. It stays a challenge for quite a few years. I think in th XL mod, the Armenians are a little tough but probably not any more so that the Aragonese or Serbs.