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  1. #1
    A Veteran Wargamer Member kiwitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Well burning "fossil fuels" is environmentally unfriendly and using nuclear power is "cleaner"

    from this article

    "In Paris last week, U.S. Ambassador Constance Morella told conferees that nuclear energy was "clean" and "reliable" and necessary in order for the world to have a "secure energy supply."

    Mohammad Saeidi, a vice president of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, delivered more or less the same message to the conferees.

    Oil and natural gas "are limited and belong to all subsequent generations" and "unrestrained use of this source of energy is not prudent," he said.

    Iran's goal, Saeidi added, is nothing less than "self-sufficiency in all aspects of the peaceful use of nuclear energy."

    So even the US supports the use of nuclear power. Iran is simply doing what the US supports
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Well burning "fossil fuels" is environmentally unfriendly and using nuclear power is "cleaner"
    Thats the funniest post ive ever seen here . Now Irans concerned with protecting the enviorment. Some one please pick me up off the floor.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Well, in a roundabout way, it makes sense... They're sitting on one of the largest reserves of oil in the world, but they know as well as anyone it's not renewable. It would be in their best interest to see it's rate of consumption reduced.

    That being said, do any of you really believe Iran really looks at it this way? Let's come clean here... Iran wants a nuclear bomb. Either you're arguing they should have one, or you're arguing they shouldn't. Let's quit with all the clever parlor tricks, shall we?
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Well, in a roundabout way, it makes sense... They're sitting on one of the largest reserves of oil in the world, but they know as well as anyone it's not renewable. It would be in their best interest to see it's rate of consumption reduced.
    Come on how much enrgy does Iran use. It would be an insignificant amount of oil and as I said it would be cheaper to import either foriegn oil or nuclear fuel than to produce their own. You right its really about whether one believes they should be allowed to have nukes or not.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Come on how much enrgy does Iran use. It would be an insignificant amount of oil and as I said it would be cheaper to import either foriegn oil or nuclear fuel than to produce their own. You right its really about whether one believes they should be allowed to have nukes or not.
    I think it's pretty clear from my post that I believe neither Iran, nor their supporters in here look at it this way, but I am a big proponent of nuclear power (something I've always admired about the French) and will take my chance for shameless plugs were I can.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  6. #6

    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    I said it would be cheaper to import either foriegn oil or nuclear fuel than to produce their own.
    Which is why Europe is meeting with them next week (with American approval)to regulate the importation of nuclear fuel so there is no need for the Uranium gas production that Iran is proposing , and no spent fuel sitting around for 10 years as it would be under the Russian deal , that way it removes any charade about "peaceful" enrichment programs or stored fuel going missing .
    All that aside if that fails then it goes to imposing sanctions (unless some idiot thinks an invasion would be a good idea) . China will block any UN sanctions (abolish the veto) .
    So lets face it nothing is going to be done .

    Personally I think they are well on the way to developing nuclear weapons and there is bugger all that can be done to stop them . So all the political pressure and threats from around the world ain't worth a damn .
    You only have to look at the different treatment Iraq and N. Korea recieved to see why a country feels the need for Nukes for its own security with this wonderful new world order of "Might is Right" . Not that it is anything new , but all the other regimes that have followed that "Might" line have ended up crumbling under the financial burden .

  7. #7
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Thank you Tribesman. Refreshing touch of honesty in this thread.

    I would argue there's more than 'bugger all' we can do, if you'd all just simply join our trade embargo, Iran would most certainly start paying a little more attention, but hey, that's the EU's decision to make, not mine. Just don't say you don't have options. Nobody says you need China's approval to put sanctions on them. You only need China's approval to put UN sanctions on them.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  8. #8
    A Veteran Wargamer Member kiwitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    I agree. A bit of a double standard (Selling polluting oil but pursuing cleaner Nuclear) But if countries doing double standards make you laugh, who am I to stop you. You'll never stop laughing.
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  9. #9
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    I agree. A bit of a double standard (Selling polluting oil but pursuing cleaner Nuclear) But if countries doing double standards make you laugh, who am I to stop you. You'll never stop laughing.
    Your obfuscating. Answer the question should they have nukes or not. I believe your answer is yes is it not?

    I think it's pretty clear from my post that I believe neither Iran, nor their supporters in here look at it this way,
    Yes you did. I was just pointing out the further absurdity of that position.

    but I am a big proponent of nuclear power (something I've always admired about the French) and will take my chance for shameless plugs were I can.
    Me too. It has always bothered me why we havent built more of these. Its costing us a foutune here on LI because they were building a plant and canceled it when it was almost done.

    ]]]]] ]]]]] SHOREHAM AND THE ENVIRONMENTALIST GUERILLAS [[[[[[[[
    By Sam McCracken 12/2/1988
    From National Review, 24 June 1988, p. 14

    [Kindly uploaded by Freeman 10602PANC]

    Late last month, the people of New York State got quite a
    bargain: the Shoreham nuclear-power plant on Long Island,
    complete and almost ready to run, a certified $5.3-billion value
    for only one dollar.
    If you wonder why the plant's owner, the Long Island Lighting
    Company (Lilco), was willing to sell at such a discount, the
    answer can be found in that phrase ``almost ready to run.'' All
    Shoreham lacks is an operating license, for which it has been
    waiting since its completion in 1984. It doesn't have an
    operating license because the State of New York and its creature,
    Suffolk County, have refused to take part in developing the
    emergency-evacuation plans that are a requisite to securing the
    license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). Earlier
    this year, it looked as if the NRC had finally lost patience with
    the persistent nonfeasance of the local authorities and would
    grant the license without their participation; but this relief
    came too late.
    Crushed by the burden of debt incurred in building a plant it
    could not use, Lilco settled for a deal under which, through a
    huge tax deduction, the federal taxpayers will ante up for part
    of its losses, and its customers will take care of the rest.
    Shoreham was in deep trouble long before the state and the
    county went on their sit-down strike. Its construction was a
    remarkable example of delay in an industry where delay is
    routine. It was ordered in 1967, but did not get a construction
    license until 1973. (By contrast, the Millstone Point II plant
    across Long Island Sound, ordered the same year as Shoreham, got
    its construction permit three years earlier.) Building Shoreham
    took 11 years. (Millstone Point II was completed in five.) And
    finally, building Shoreham, difficult as it was, was easier than
    operating it, which turned out to be impossible.
    Meanwhile in Connecticut, Millstone Point II cost $424 million
    and, by the time Shoreham was completed, had already paid for
    itself by fuel savings, which now total approximately $700
    million.
    Shoreham proved so expensive for a number of reasons,
    including management failures, leaden-handed regulation,
    environmentalist guerrilla tactics, and the malevolence of the
    local governments. All of these operated through delay. Delay
    ensured that the plant was constructed through a period of
    swinging inflation and swinging interest rates. (Shoreham has
    been costing Lilco upwards of $1 million a day in interest.) It
    cost $4.8 billion more than Millstone Point II.
    The final and fatal delay was the most unnecessary of all, the
    delay in the operating license. This delay was not imposed by
    the authorities responsible for ensuring the safety of
    nuclear-power plants -- those whose supervision has meant that
    not a single member of the public has been injured. They had not
    concluded that Shoreham was unsafe to operate. Rather, the local
    authorities had yielded to anti-nuclear hysteria.
    Nuclear power is held to a standard of safety which no other
    industrial technology could possibly meet. If the standards were
    generalized, tankers carrying liquefied natural gas could not
    enter our harbors. Semiconductor factories could not operate.
    And indeed, cola-fired power plants, most of which emit more
    radiation than is permitted for nuclear plants, could not
    operate.
    Nuclear power has been meeting this standard. But Governor
    Cuomo and his allies have devised something new: an infinitely
    high standard.
    Speaking some years ago about the financial prospects of
    Lilco, Governor Cuomo compassionately remarked, ``Let them take a
    bath. They're a private corporation.'' In the event, the bath
    will be taken by practically everyone but Lilco. It will be a
    crowded tub. Lilco's customers and the federal taxpayers will be
    there. So will all the inhabitants of Long Island, who will
    suffer from unreliable sources of electricity. And since some of
    the replacement electricity for Shoreham will be generated by
    burning more coal, which kills people through air pollution, some
    of the people in the tub will be not merely clean but dead.
    The nuclear industry is in a mess in America, especially
    compared to countries like France, where 55 percent of the
    electricity comes from the atom. Some of the blame must got to
    the regulators, who, among other things, have ensured that each
    plant must be custom-designed and custom-built, incorporating
    hundreds of design changes over the period of construction. And
    a great deal of blame must go to the anti-nuclear movement,
    which, unable to make nuclear power illegal, has done what it can
    to make it uneconomical. To this, the New York State and Suffolk
    County authorities have added civil disobedience by government
    itself.
    They already have emulators to the north: Michael Dukakis is
    trying to kill the Seabrook plant with his own sit-down strike
    over emergency planning. Most of the politicians involved in
    these tactics will have moved up or out when the bills come due,
    but their names should be remembered for the history books. [[[[[[[[
    Heres another link on the topic

    LINK

    And heres a bunch of links on the topic

    LINK

    Weve been paying out the ass for electricity here because of this for the last 25 years. In the end LILCO went out of buissness.
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 05-18-2005 at 02:41.
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  10. #10
    A Veteran Wargamer Member kiwitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    As I said before Iran is surrounded by Nuclear Powers, Russia, Pakistan, India, US Navy vessels, etc., so it maybe pursuing this covertly. It may get them as a deterrent to these nations.

    I think some of the ex-Soviet republics could be considered unstable, and they have possibly access to some of the "missing nukes" from the old Soviet munitions, I am sure.
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  11. #11
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    You didn't answer the question, Kiwitt! SHOULD Iran be allowed to pursue nuclear weapons or not? Not are they, we all know they are, SHOULD they be allowed to?
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  12. #12
    A Veteran Wargamer Member kiwitt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Answers

    Should they be allowed to pursue nuclear weapons. NO
    Should they be allowed to pursue nuclear power and reprocessing YES

    We should monitor their nuclear programs and ensure that all material used is accounted for.
    We work to live, and to live is to, play "Total War" or drive a VR-4

  13. #13
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    and reprocessing YES
    Why?
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  14. #14
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europe warns Iran... well sort of...

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitt
    Should they be allowed to pursue nuclear power and reprocessing YES
    If Russia has already agreed to sell them all the fuel rods they could ever possibly need, at a reasonable rate, and if Russia didn't we'd probably funnel them to Israel, Pakistan or somebody else at a discount rate to make certain they'd take them, why do they need breeder reactors?
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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