Bulgarian Brigands

[Zarax]

Everyone loves them

They got ridicolously high building requisites, little advantages over vanilla archers and a much more effective competitor called Trebizond Archers.

Now the question, how to make them more useful in game?

I'm making a poll with the most obvious choices, let me know if you got better ideas...

The chosen option will be featured in the small and unknown ZX MiniMod

[metatron]

Ack. I voted defense, but they're archers... What's their range again? Increase that.

[Zarax]

I already did that (they uses a composite bow now, but so does the Trebizond Archers).

[Ironside]

Play as the Poles

[the tokai]

I voted increase attack but I think that both attack and defence should be increased by 1 point (or maybe even more). I always thought bulgarian brigands should be more all round troops who can do both shooting and some flanking and even attacking head on in the woods.

EDIT: and maybe make the available at bowyers guild so that you can actually use them and they can profit from that nice +1 valour bonus from the master level.

[PittBull260]

increase attack, that way their arrows do more dmg and kill more ppl quicker :)

i always use those archers next to longbowmen of course

[Togakure]

The one thing I noticed about Brigands (and Desert Archers) is that they move a bit faster, thus making them more effective archers when in skirmish mode against foot troops with the standard (slower) movement rate. Personally I like Trebs better, as I don't use archers for skirmishing as much as for frontline ranged units in Early. When I use them as frontline ranged, I protect them with cav, so I usually have them in Hold/Hold instead of skirmish. Hence I prefer an archer unit that can fight fairly well after expending their ammo, rather than speedy ones that can skirmish well.

[Gward]

Builded in Bulgaria, Serbia, Wallahia
Can train by Byzants, Russians, Novgorodian, Polish, Hungarian
All periods
Bowyer's workshop

[Yoyoma1910]

Why don't you make em the fastest moving foot archers in the game? Increase their speed a point or two, and maybe a touch more moral would be nice. Also/or give them camoflage, so that they can surprise the enemy.

[Gward]

Why don't you make em the fastest moving foot archers in the game? Increase their speed a point or two, and maybe a touch more moral would be nice. Also/or give them camoflage, so that they can surprise the enemy.

Ya. Give them polearms, more armor, horse speed, and other advantages. And don't forget set training to fort. It will be funky.

[Productivity]

Actually, the ability to hide makes a bit of sense, given they are brigands, you would think that they would have ot be able to hide.

[Zarax]

Hmm, the hiding stuff could be a good bonus to start with...
Keep voting guys!

[BAD]

Lower the requisites and aye give them the hide option. Sounds good.

[Etym]

I agree with dgb - my first impulse was give them hiding ability. But I'd settle for lower requisites - it seems I only get to use them as mercs, 'cause the buildup is too darn long.

[Zarax]

Well, in the ZX Mini Mod they are available sooner as a trick...
Pick the Huns, build Szekelys and dismount them, you won't regret it...

[Zarax]

All right, since voting seems stopped...
What if i'd lower the requisites to bowyers guild+inn and give them hiding ability?
To compensate that i'm going to raise the cost about 30%.

Yay? Nay?

[bretwalda]

Sounds good. Where are they buildable?

[Yoyoma1910]

What about upkeep cost?

[Zarax]

Sounds good. Where are they buildable?

Bulgaria only (and trebs are Trebizond only now but available to everyone)...

It's more in line with the spirit of the mod plus it gives a much needed advantage to the huns over Byz as they lack heavy troops...

About the upkeep cost i don't know if i'll change it, my main concern is about avoiding to cripple the AI and higher upkeeps are likely to do it and after all, even with these bonuses the brigands aren't exactly a battle winner, composite bows are better than vanilla ones but they fares poorly against anything with more than 3 armour.

[Odin]

All right, since voting seems stopped...
What if i'd lower the requisites to bowyers guild+inn and give them hiding ability?
To compensate that i'm going to raise the cost about 30%.

Yay? Nay?

I'd do some testing on the cost increase. As you mentioned in a subsequent post (which I agree with) higher upkeeps for the AI might not be wise.

dgb is right, they are brigands so the ability to hide seems a fair upgrade.

As far as lowering the requsites I dont think thats unreasonable given that its a unit that can be built in one province only.... Seems reasonable.

[Zarax]

Any results on your tests, Odin?

[Maximus the Meek]

there is only one clear solution...Give them the power to shoot lightening from their eyes...

[Odin]

Any results on your tests, Odin?

On my testing? I reccommend you test it, I assume this is for your mod right? I just put my two cents in out of mild curiosity, not out of desire to test anything.

Sorry for any confusion, good luck !

[Zarax]

Of course, i'm testing it too but having an extra opinion never hurts...