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Thread: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

  1. #1
    EB insanity coordinator Senior Member khelvan's Avatar
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    Default EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

    We hesitated presenting this faction to you this week. We're not quite sure how we will top this preview. However, we felt the time was right to reveal these units. As usual, we have a mix of artists working on the units, as well as many people involved in their creation, and everyone will be given proper credit when the mod is released. However, this week special thanks goes to Spartan Warrior.

    This week, the EB team is proud to present:



    "Of all the frontiers of the ancient world, none has endured so long in the poetic imagination as the kingdom of Baktria. In those distant haunts of the Hindu Kush, nearly three thousand miles east of Athens, the Hellenes imagined a never-never land untouched by civilization. Rivers of honey oozed on the Baktrian frontier; fierce griffins guarded the precious gold mined by giant ants; people had ears the size of an elephant's, ate their parents, and lived for centuries." According to tradition, the god Dionysos was the first to tame this land, then Herakles, and finally Alexandros. The realities of the kingdom of Baktria are more difficult to come by however, and the influence of the Iranian peoples played a larger role than the legends reveal. While the history and culture of the kingdom of Baktria is obscured in the mists at its home near the top of the world, it is known that at its largest extent it encompassed an area consisting of all of Turkmenistan, Tadzhikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, up to the Indus.

    The forces of the kingdom of Baktria are an exciting mixture of Hellenic and Iranian (and if you choose to expand there, Indian), and you will not lead them to glory on the field of battle without utilizing the best of both worlds. Mainland Hellenes straight from Thessaly and Athens served with Hellenized Iranians and locals throughout Baktria's realms. Hellenistic phalangites and Iranian spearmen will make up the core of your infantry. From the lightest armed local levies in Hellenic and indigenous panoplies to the successor state phalangites, you will have many different types of infantry from which to choose. Any Baktrian king will strive to quickly recruit a royal foot unit suitable for this kingdom and will find that the mobile and elite Baktrian hypaspists, whose equipment and style is a curious mix of a Hellenic unit adapting to the terrain, climate, and fighting styles of Transoxiana, will turn the tide of many battles. You will have to rely heavily on your countless varieties of cavalry, including regional javelin and bow mounted units of varying abilities, Median and Baktrian medium cavalry, as well as Hellenistic and uniquely Baktrian cataphract cavalry. The cavalry are supplemented by Indian elephants, which Baktria supplied in large numbers to the Seleukid empire before its independence. A variety of skirmishers are also available, including well armored and elite units as well as the Baktrian Doryphoroi, whose spears and bows make them one of the most intriguing units available anywhere.

    The kingdom of Baktria was constantly harrassed by nomads and Sakai from the north, and the Seleukids did not let Baktria go without a fight. The relationship with Parthia is stormy and you will need to choose your path with them carefully; good relations can help to stave off the decaying Seleucid influence in the region, but even then they are a threat that Baktria will have to deal with if they are to move west. The Hindu Kush provide a monumental barrier to the southeast, but any enterprising king must lead his forces across the top of the world to make India his own, and the Bactrians are better poised to do this than any other faction. With India at your back and the barbaric nomads to the north contained the dream of Alexandros' Brotherhood of Man can become a reality that sweeps across the eastern world!



    Here we have the Baktrians in action.








    Of course, the units:

    Pantodapoi Phalangites are the standard levy of the Seleucid Kingdom and others influenced by the Successors, including Pontus. They are tough and reliable infantry, but are prone to rebellion and discontent and are hence more expensive than their Macedonian contemporaries. They are mostly levies of Jewish, Syrian, and Persian descent that are co-opted into the army. They fight as pikemen, with a soft leather cuirass, pikes, round Illyrian style shields and Phrygian caps. This makes them a viable pike unit, though they are less disciplined and more prone to flee than more reliable Greeks and Macedonians that make up the Pezhetairoi. They can be counted upon to present a solid wall of spear points to the enemy, but their lack of discipline and intensive training makes them even more prone to a flanking attack.

    Historically, the Seleucids and others used pike levies from their various subject peoples to make up parts of the battle line that were facing the enemy’s least valuable troops. They gave decent accounts of themselves at many battles, but were the first line to break in the disasters at Raphia against the Ptolemies and in Macedonia against the Romans. They made up more and more of the Seleucid battle line as time went on, due to the dwindling number of Greek recruits that the army could draw upon for the pike units (most went to the more elite units), and more and more Asiatic peoples were put into the Pezhetairoi class and given land grants, to make up the loss. Still, these more unreliable formations were still used in many places.


    Pezhetairoi are the bread and butter military unit of the Successor States. They are well disciplined and highly motivated pikemen that are armed and armored to the teeth. They are armored in a linen cuirass, a Thracian cap, a bronze greave on the right leg, stout boots, good bracers, and reinforced shoulder pads made from hardened linen (due to their experience with the deadly curved swords of Thrace). They have Illyrian style round shields attached to their bodies by leather straps that help support the weight of the shield and keep their hand free to grasp the sarissa. They are defensive infantry par excellent. They are the anvil of the two part Macedonian system of warfare, the heavy cavalry being the hammer. They should be used to anchor enemy soldiers while the Theurophoroi harass the flanks and the heavy cavalry smashes into the flanks and rear.

    Historically, the Pezhetairoi are the classic Alexandrian phalanx. They were used to great effect against the Persians, Medes, Bactrians, Indians, Phoenicians, and many, many others. They are an effective force and have not changed much over the centuries. The Romans were able to defeat them as easily as they did for two main reasons. One, the Roman army was at a high state of readiness and tactical prowess after defeating the Carthaginians. Two, the heavy cavalry arm of the Successor armies had degenerated to the point where they were no longer able to field significant numbers to fulfill their part of the hammer and anvil tactic of Alexander. There were many small reasons, numbering among them the misuse of the Thureophoroi, the underuse of Peltasts, and the lax state of warfare that the Successor states were used to. In any case, the phalanx was not as anachronistic or inflexible as widely believed; it was simply used in the wrong way. In the thirteenth century onwards, pikemen in similar formations were able to work wonders with more capable generals and a better cavalry arm. Do not under appreciate pikemen, for they are still a war winning force.


    Armed with spear and bow these troops are not well regarded by their Greek masters having formed the bulk of the Old Persian army defeated by Alexander the Great. Seen as skirmishers and auxiliaries with the heavy Greek infantry forming the battle line. These Iranian Spearmen are recruited from the eastern reaches of the Iranian plateau and are very common in the armies of Baktria. They are the backbone of the traditional tribal militia and form a major part of the Baktrian tribal levy. They are armed with the traditional Iranian weapons, an 8' spear and a composite foot bow. A large decorated brown leather quiver of arrows would be slung on the left side with the bow case on the right. A long plain yellow tunic with close fitting sleeves at the wrists. The tunic would be held with an narrow embroidered Parthian linen belt. Trousers are worn under the tunic and are close fitting. Soft felt ankle shoes are secured with leather or fabric straps.

    Historically, the vast Iranian plateau gave rise to a form of infantry rarely seen in the west. Armed with 8' spears and composite short bow these infantry are well suited to conditions in the east facing nomadic enemies relying on long range archery to which they men are well able to respond. Nomadic cavalry is reluctant to engage close order troops and these men can fill both roles. They are versatile and can be dangerous if used properly. They are however no match for heavily armored infantry. Individually, they are skilled but not outstanding warriors, but their versatility ensures that they will be useful to any commander. These men however, prefer to rely on archery to inflict harm on the enemy. They can hold the line against weaker infantry and cavalry but they cannot be relied upon to put up an extended fight if the situation is not in their favor.


    Indohellenikoi Hoplitai: After the kingdom of Baktria attacked and seized its Indian possessions, it found the Greeks who had been living there had adapted somewhat to native ways. Gone was the close phalanx formation and the long spear, replaced by a somewhat looser but more skilled melee formation. They adopted a Phrygian style helmet, light cotton Thracian trousers, and javelins, in addition to a smaller and lighter shield. This allows them to be excellent elephant killers, as well as defeat the more lightly armored infantry of the east. They can be used as a good medium infantry, to screen the flanks and protect against elephants and cavalry while the Thureophoroi deliver the fatal melee blow.

    Historically, the Indo-Greeks adapted quite well to the environment of India and prospered. Many became Buddhists, though they still remained fierce warriors, true to their Hellenic forbearers. They are an excellent medium infantry, well able to compliment other troop types and provide a versatile unit against light cavalry and elephants.


    The Baktrians, not being a proper successor to Alexander’s legacy, had no force of elite shock infantry to draw upon after their split from the Seleucid empire. To take the fortresses of their mountainous homeland, they were forced to develop such a force of heavy infantry. Armored in lamellar and scale, they are a force of heavy infantry to be reckoned with. They have stout iron greaves and helmets, and are armed with xiphoi and javelins. This infantry can be used as a shock assault infantry par excellence. They are best when right in the middle of the action.

    Historically, Baktria was a mountainous land, filled with hill tribes and fierce peoples, raided constantly by steppe nomads and ferocious peoples to the south and west. They developed this sort of heavy infantry to man and rapidly deploy from their mountain fortresses, protecting the legendary fertile valleys of the Baktrian kingdom.


    The Baktrion Agema are the result of the adapting of the Hypaspists, a fast moving phalanx formation of elite troops, with Baktrian climate and topography conditions influencing several changes in the unit, including a distinctively "Oriental" look. They are a Royal bodyguard unit and are elaborately decorated and equipped. They are made up of the elite of the Baktrian phalangites and are a very expensive unit to maintain.

    As with all Hypaspists, they are not a regular line unit, but are designed to strike quickly at weak points or support areas in the line in dire situations. Their speed also makes them more effective when dealing with nomadic troops. These elite troops may have had some religious or sacred significance too, as they are equipped with the insignia of Anahita Artemis in numerous locations on their gear.


    Armed chiefly with javelins these horsemen hail from Arachosia, Bactria, Sogdiana and similarly equipped light cavalry were also supplied by the levy from Persis and Media. Their flexible nature makes them well suited to the fluid, aggressive style of warfare so common on the eastern frontiers. Mounted on a swift horse, armed with nothing but a small crescent-shaped 'Taka' shield, short spear, and a handful of javelins these swift moving horsemen can be deadly. Their small, nimble ponies can negotiate most terrain easily, and they're capable enough to survive contact with the enemy, but their strength remains in maintaining their loose style of fighting.

    Historically, cavalry of this kind was supplied by both nomadic and settled populations on the eastern marches of the old Achaemenid Empire and kept fighting for and against the states that succeeded it. Equipped with javelins, they would advance on their target at less than a gallop. As each rank came into range, these warriors would turn away, hurling their javelins at the target, and retire to safety before the enemy could retaliate. The result was often a swirling mass of charging and counter-charging horsemen as they reformed to attack again.


    The Baktrian cavalry under Greek rule is much the same as the Baktrian cavalry under the former Persian rule. They are tough lancers; able to punch holes through most enemy lines, and are among the best cavalry of their type. They are armed with a long kontos and an axe, making them versatile heavy cavalrymen.


    After suffering heavy losses to the Parthian and Armenian Cataphracts, the Seleucid and Bactrian empires produced their own versions of these heavy horsemen, both adapting the unit to Greek technology and using superior metalwork to make them even more heavily armored. They are armored in an expensive combination of lamellar armor and chain, with heavy felt sandwiched in the middle. The resulting armor is tough and flexible, but offers outstanding protection. They are to be used as heavy shock cavalry, and have staying power in melee because of the sheer weight of their armor. They are slightly heavier than their Parthian counterparts, but lack the deadly maces that the Parthians carry and also the élan of their elite Parthian counterparts. Their horses are as heavily armored than those of the Hetairoi, but they lack the characteristic fierceness and discipline of the elite successor cavalry.

    Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were at least as good as their Parthian enemy, but most Seleucid commanders did not quite understand how to use this cavalry. They won great victories over the Parthians when supporting the heavier and more elite Hetairoi, compelling the Parthians to settle for a peace treaty and suzerainty over some of the Seleucid eastern possessions. They passed into history when most of the unit was bribed by Pompey during his conquest of the east. They formed the basis for the Roman cataphracts of later ages.

    Here, we have a few treats from Teleklos:




    We hope you enjoyed this week's update.

    Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

    As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

    Or here:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

    We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

    Have a wonderful day!

    Sincerely,

    -the EB team
    Cogita tute


  2. #2
    Blue Eyed Samurai Senior Member Wishazu's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    VERY GOOD!!!! some of the best looking skins ive seen so far from you guys. so when is it available again???? lol
    "Wishazu does his usual hero thing and slices all the zombies to death, wiping out yet another horde." - Askthepizzaguy, Resident Evil: Dark Falls

    "Move not unless you see an advantage; use not your troops unless there is something to be gained; fight not unless the position is critical"
    Sun Tzu the Art of War

    Blue eyes for our samurai
    Red blood for his sword
    Your ronin days are over
    For your home is now the Org
    By Gregoshi

  3. #3
    Not Just A Name; A Way Of Life Member Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Was I right, or was I right?



    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars

    -- Oscar Wilde

  4. #4
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    haha wow! some of those skins are outlandishly cool!

    4 of the baktrian units are in my personal top 10 best looking EB units, so far.

    who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!

    edit: thanks for posting it so soon in the weekend, btw.
    Last edited by Big_John; 05-14-2005 at 01:50.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  5. #5

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John
    who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!
    I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

    I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon.
    Last edited by Teleklos Archelaou; 05-14-2005 at 02:01.

  6. #6

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Something tells me the Baktrians will be conquering the world in the near future...

  7. #7
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
    I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

    I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon.
    well hot damn, keep it up guys!

    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  8. #8

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?


    also, it looks great, but i just can't get over those duck helmets on the Agema

  9. #9
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    They are just fighting them.
    About those "duch helmets", I thought it was pretty funny to, but it's accurate.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  10. #10

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Quote Originally Posted by runes
    what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?
    Apparently an extremely lost bunch of Irishmen.
    (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46312)

    That's what happens when you drink too much with your friends... one minute you're all stumbling across the Irish countryside looking for a convenient tree to urinate on, and before you know it you and your mates have somehow ended up in Baktria going head-to-head with some pikemen wearing ducks on their heads.


    (edit: corrected spelling)

  11. #11

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    they look great :D

  12. #12
    Member Member Acutulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?

  13. #13

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Quote Originally Posted by Acutulus
    I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?
    It's a more conservative version of a strange "Boiotian" helmet (the normal type of which was very popular among Hellenic Baktrians) that is found here. Hard to see them, but there are four of them on both of the figures (only one shown on that link). The horse ears are traditonally found on most Boiotian and other type helmets of Baktrian kings and are found on the link above's helmet as well. But the "barnacles" on the helmet above puzzled us to no end. It was clear that they were painstakingly molded onto the figures and so we thought they should be included. We love the helmets! I'm still pushing for their inclusion in another Baktrian unit (unfortunately some of the other best ones weren't even included in this preview), but we'll just have to wait and see on that.

    edit: *After* unit creation we found an artist's recreation of the unit in a book on the Baktrian military. They changed the helmet up more than we did, and didn't get a few details I think we got, but it wound up exceedingly similar to ours. ("Baktrian Royal Foot Bodyguard")
    Last edited by Teleklos Archelaou; 05-14-2005 at 03:47.

  14. #14
    Member Member Acutulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Very interesting, a little off setting at first, but I must say they're growing on me. Great job yet again.

  15. #15
    Member Member Birka Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Very good job again EB. I think this faction will be among the strongest....

  16. #16
    Member Member cunctator's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Bartix! Great work. Nice to see horsese with saddles.

  17. #17
    EB Member... sort of Member Proper Gander's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    *dribble*

    damn beta COUNTDOWN....

  18. #18
    Jedi Master Member spirit_of_rob's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    so.... theres not really much point anyone else makin a mod if it wont be ready before EB is there! ;)
    Skinner/Modeller for EB


  19. #19

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    To the EB Team........
    I have followed this project and been very impressed with the work you have produced but this time you have surpassed yourselves.
    Every single thing about this faction looks truly amazing and I am not surprised they appear to have become the favourite faction!

    I am totally stunned!! I am champing at the bit to try this Mod!! Please don't prolong the torture too much, the waiting is agony

    ........Orda

  20. #20
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    oooooohhh

    We do not sow.

  21. #21
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Sweet Sean Hannity! Best Countdown ever!

    I'm just sad that little Bactria gets so little land to start with. I guess I'll have to fix that.


  22. #22

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Awesome

  23. #23
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Wow, lots of work went into this.

    Maybe Sega will hire you...

  24. #24
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  25. #25

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    I really enjoyed this update; it has piqued my interest in Baktria. However, I noticed that the description for the Pezhetairoi still says "greave on right leg".

  26. #26

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Quote Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
    No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.
    How do we know? Have they ever tried?

  27. #27
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Cool stuff indeed!

    But this is countdown to Beta, how about fullversion, will it come next month or this month?

    As you might see, I`m a completely newbie to mods.
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  28. #28

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Full version will probably come a few months after the open-beta.

  29. #29

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    "No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game."

    Steel Panthers
    Close Combat

  30. #30

    Default Re: EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

    Exactly, most Games by Sega that i played were quite fun, well balanced, not too buggy (at least not as excessive as RTW) and if they were meant to be they were also most often quite historical. Spartan total Warrior of Course is more Fantasylike.

    Ps: Eb will of course be more fun, Bug free, historical etc

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