EB - Countdown to Open Beta: Baktria

[The Wizard]

Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona

We have plenty of Europeans on the team... Iberians, Britons, Germans, etc... to use the ancient terms.

Personally I'm from the Netherlands, or Germania Inferior (mostly; everything outside Germania Inferior is periphery anyways...). But I do Parthia along with sharrukin and Steppe Merc, who're from the US (?). You don't need to be from the place to know a lot about it, and be correct about what you know. If anything, it helps you be unbiased and open to many opinions about the subject.

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.



~Wiz

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

khelvan, not khevlan. And yes, he is an US citizen.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.

The area has seen it's share of conflict throughout the ages. Just in the middle ages, Charlemagne and successors, French, Burgundians, English, Spanish, etc...

IIRC, Spanish intervention there was motivated by those Habsburg heritages scatered all over Europe during Charles V's empire. That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor

And you must remember that Portugal was not involved in the process. Read some of our stories in the Indias against you Dutch pirates...

Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

[Dux Corvanus]

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.

I see the Duke of Alba's shadow is a long shadow...

That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it?

Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China...

Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules!

[khelvan]

never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

是，我是美国人

[Dux Corvanus]

是，我是美国人

So hard-headed. That's why we call him kevlar.

Mmmm, Chinese characters look like tiny TV antennas to me...

[TheTank]

是，我是美国人

A Japanese American?!

[Dux Corvanus]

A Japanese American?!

He just committed seppuku!!!

[khelvan]

A Japanese American?!

我不是日本人

[TheTank]

我不是日本人

I am not the Japanese..........?!

Babelfish ;-)

是，我是美国人=Yes, I am an American

This is funny game

[DemonArchangel]

So you're Chinese Khelvan? Or did you use a translator?

[khelvan]

Neither.

我学中文

[Furious Mental]

You study Chinese too? Tones are my nemesis!

[TheTank]

Neither.

我学中文

Do you study mandarin or kantonese or both languages?!

[khelvan]

Mandarin. However, the characters are universal - the meaning, at least. A Mandarin and Cantonese speaker can communicate with no misunderstandings through the written language. The meanings are the same, the pronunciation much different. Even some Japanese characters are shared, so a Chinese speaker may be able to decipher some small portion of written Japanese.

[Furious Mental]

I think Zhongwen refers to Mandarin.

[Han]

haha I am chinese and learning to write chinese, that is...Mandarin, oh ya I also speak a bit Fujianese but I understand(listen) it very well, one of the hardest provincinal languages in China

[Idomeneas]

units as whole are of very high quality. But allow me some notices (i know there is work to be done yet).
The metal surfaces could use alittle more work in meshes and gradients.
the horses nostrils(sp?) of Bactrian Cataphracts seems to be too close to each other reducing the perspective width of horse head. Its a detail but details compile the whole
BTH did you saw Blue Lotus mod horses? They look very very good. How about borrowing them

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it?

Ah! Yes. That little piece of land that only encompasses 70% of total area and has about 60% of all economical wealth of South America. It's called by some tree that only appears there, right? Is it something like... ...Brasil?

Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China...

And you only got 3 kings here because they were cousins of the deceased and heirless D.Sebastião.

Let's not delve in to Portugal-Spain warfare or we'll be here all night...

And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules!

Watch out for The Wizard's reply...

[Furious Mental]

Do you use pinyin to help learn characters? I find it rather helpful.

[Dux Corvanus]

Let's not delve in to Portugal-Spain warfare or we'll be here all night...

Why worry? You won them all...

Watch out for The Wizard's reply...

They also won in the end...

And Albion is to be blamed!

[Idomeneas]

hmmm.... Better we should talk about portugal spain things i guess...

[Angadil]

extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.

The Graeco-Bactrians and Indo-Greeks, under the names of Yavanas and Yonakas (=Ionians, i.e Greeks) did leave some traces in Indian sources, though its usefulness is limited. Some examples:

The most extensive and better known is, of course the Milindapanha (Milinda's Questions). A buddhist treatise where the Indo-Greek king Milinda (Menander I Soter) maintains philosophical conversations with the buddhist monk Nagasena. There are references to the structure of Menander's army (prominence of cavalry, inclusion of elephants and a doubtful mention of chariots), and to a possible 500-strong royal boydguard.

The Mahabharata also mentions Yavana mounted warriors and we hear of 3.000 Yavana riders, "highly honored among the heroes". In cavalry-rich Bactria the "Companions" might have been that many

In the Agnimitra, an Indian drama by writer Kalidasa, there is an account of a battle between a Yavana king (seemingly Menander I again) and king Vasumitra, of the Sunga dynasty that might have taken place on the banks of the Indus around 150 BCE. The Yavana's king cavalry is mentioned, but no other troop types.

And that's pretty much all I know of. It does seems to match, however, the prominence of cavalry on the Bactrian military that we can infer from other sources (the 10.000 horsemen at the Arius River in Polybius, frequent depictions of horsemen and of the kings as riders or with cavalry gear in coins).

[Turin]

Hey Khelvan, are you actually Chinese then?

Anyway, to test your theories about Japanese and Chinese compatability:

貴方は中国人でしょうね？どうでもいい．．．
とにかく、中国人ではありませんでしたら、貴方の中国語が本当に凄いですよ！

And just for the record:

我也不是日本人！
湖南，长沙，毛泽东的老乡！

[The Wizard]

Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

Don't forget I'm supposed to be Dutch... I don't have any national pride.

So I acknowledge that we only won the Eighty Years' War because Spain was way too busy fighting Ottomans, French and others... psyche!

Turns out I'm from Curaçao...

Once the watergeuzen took Brielle, the dam was busted and not even the duke of Alva nor his successor could stop the tide. You guys (talking to the Spanish here -- loosely, not implicating anything ) got pwnd hard -- both your armadas and your armies, both under Stadhouder Maurits!

Before Brielle, Willem van Oranje actually was in a very tenacious position, both with the duke of Alva going around cowing the protestants from revolting and joining the geuzen. Our current national anthem was actually a piece of propaganda made in a desperate time for the Prince -- he needed followers, bad.

But then some opportunists took Brielle! Guess what? There's actually bread to be made fighting the Spanish! Let's go lads, for freedom!

Gotta love the Dutch espiritu mércantil, if you catch my drift.

And Aymar, Charles V was actually very Burgundian in his way of ruling his empire. He was born and raised in the upper Low Countries (Belgium), and had his court there. He was there for most of his rule, and gave the crown to his son there as well.

Now, Philip II, that was a Spaniard. Not sure if he was born there, but raised certainly. And like any self-respecting Spaniard at the time, he was a deeply catholic man. His decisions against the people of the lower Low Countries (Netherlands) after they trashed the churches and destroyed the statues of saints etc. (we call it Beeldenstorm) were at first succesful, but then reversed as he got involved in other conflicts, and as more and more people started to resist him. His giving out rewards for anyone that killed Willem van Oranje succeeded, but unfortunately for him, Maurits was a very capable military commander, the best in Europe at the time, and with him came a generation of Dutchmen that launched our Gouden Eeuw. Too determined, skilled and vigorous for the busy Spaniards (who nevertheless had a large military presence in what their greatest ruler considered his heartlands).

But let's not have any hard feelings over this, eh? ¡Vamos a la Tropicana, bibiremos mucho ron, fumaremos cigarros cubanos, y bailaremos con las mujeres bonitas, mujeriegos!



~Wiz

[Dux Corvanus]

Forgive us, I guess we just liked it too much to leave.

[The Wizard]

Sure -- 'we' didn't like leaving Indonesia either.



~Wiz

[Moros]

You know I had an exam of the eighty years war yesterday : I'm Belgium one of the ones that lost :( , stupid spaniards :p.
btw: the "beeldenstorm started in what now is called Belgium (not far from the coast, but I don't know anymore wich city started.)
but hey without the spaniards I'd be dutch! so the spaniards weren't that bad :p

"gggedverdamme (op z'n Hans Teeuwen), dan was ik hollander gggeweest,heb ik gggeluk gggehad!" (plaaggg,plaagggg)

[Ellesthyan]

I wouldn't call that luck, Gertgregoor. Belgium became a playground for the European forces; though I doubt the french would have backed of if the Southern Netherlands would've become dutch, but probably a few other wars would have been fought somewhere else. Furthermore, the native language of the Walons, dutch, was through french occupation and colonization made extinct, and the once richest region of Europe with the once most important port had to give away its position and fell down a deep hole.

No, it was not exactly the best scenario for Belgium...

[The Wizard]

Bah, Antwerp... we should just block off the Schelde with a new part of the Deltawerken and say we're protecting Belgium and Zeeuws-Vlaanderen from flooding.



~Wiz