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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

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    A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Thursday’s decision by a federal court to overturn Nebraska’s state constitutional marriage amendment is a landmark moment in the battle over same-sex marriage. For the first time, a federal court has taken this matter out of the hands of a state. A constitutional amendment passed with a 70 percent majority of Nebraska’s voters has been voided. There could be no clearer demonstration of the arrogance of activist judges. This should remind Republican senators of the urgent need to confirm the president’s nominees to the bench. And of course this decision clearly shows that, without a federal marriage amendment, same-sex marriage is destined to be imposed on the country by the courts.

    Eugene Volokh has posted a very sharp analysis of the Nebraska case. Let’s use Volokh’s thorough analysis as a way into this issue. The most important point Volokh makes is that the logic of the Nebraska decision, if upheld, would have the effect of imposing gay marriage on the entire country. As noted, this is exactly why a federal marriage amendment is needed. Yet Volokh himself is a libertarian-leaning law professor sympathetic to same-sex marriage and opposed to a federal marriage amendment. Volokh seems to think that this obviously wrongheaded decision is destined to be reversed on appeal. So why bother with a federal amendment if this fluke of a decision is about to be overturned?

    Well, this decision is not a fluke. The parts of the decision Volokh thinks are the most obviously wrongheaded simply mimic the core arguments of same-sex-marriage advocates. Volokh criticizes the decision for holding that the state has no rational interest in promoting unions among specifically heterosexual couples. Volokh doesn’t personally endorse the idea that the state ought to claim such an interest, but he insists that reasonable people can differ on the matter. Says Volokh, it’s not irrational on its face that the state might have a special interest in promoting a particular sort of relationship between men and women. Yet the distinctive thing about public debate on this issue is the claim by same-sex-marriage advocates that there are no rational grounds for opposing gay marriage — that opposition to same-sex marriage is rooted in sheer animus. The court here is simply buying into the widespread view that this is not a rational debate, but a debate between rationality and prejudice. The Goodridge decision in Massachusetts did something similar.

    Volokh also criticizes the case for ignoring the distinction between the right to intimate association and the right to have the government recognize or subsidize your particular form of relationship. After all, says Volokh, the government doesn’t have to provide the benefits of marriage to single people. Volokh is right on substance, but misses the point nonetheless. A core premise of same-sex-marriage advocates is that a lack of government benefits does in fact violate their rights. The mere right to association is not enough, they say. They want benefits and state recognition for their relationships — and they insist that their entitlement to that recognition is a “right.” Even now, “single’s rights” advocates are making exactly the same argument for their own entitlement to the benefits of marriage. In fact, single’s rights groups self-consciously model their own demands on the demands of the gay marriage movement.

    So I agree with Volokh that this decision is wrongheaded. It blurs key distinctions, refuses to recognize that there is a rational argument on both sides of the issue, and ultimately undercuts the rationale for state support of marriage. Yet that is exactly what the movement for same-sex marriage has been doing for years.

    Volokh is “pretty sure” the Court of Appeals will reverse this decision. If it doesn’t, says Volokh, the Supreme Court will — and should — reverse. This strikes me as utterly naive. Volokh seems to think the judicial overreach in this case is obvious. But that doesn’t explain how the case got wrongly decided to begin with. The answer is clear. This judge has accepted the framing of the issue adopted by both same-sex-marriage advocates — and the entire mainstream media. This isn’t some judicial fluke. It’s evidence that the movement for same-sex marriage is successfully framing the debate — and thereby undermining the legal basis for marriage itself.

    If this particular decision is reversed on appeal, that’s cold comfort. It’s all-too-obvious that the folks who think the way this judge does are not going to give way after a single reversal. They rightly believe that, over time, the courts have been shifting in their direction. It’s not just some crazy off-the-reservation judge who’s flying in the face of Volokh’s favored legal principles. It’s the entire liberal establishment. That is why, for those who oppose same-sex marriage, there is simply no alternative to a federal constitutional amendment.
    More judicial activism.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Equally important, it shows the need to bring about a reform of the judicial branch. Do you all still say there's no such thing as judicial activism? A judge threw out a state constitution on the grounds "he didnt' like it". Come on, we're not slaves to the black robes yet, and we don't have to become that way...But if we allow this current trend to continue, Congress, the White House and anyone in State Governements will be figureheads. The appointed, uneelcted judges will tell hold your leash and it will be too late.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Proves America is a radical left wing hippie state ruled by stalinist pigs. I'm sorry but I have to say I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT!

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    Proves America is a radical left wing hippie state ruled by stalinist pigs. I'm sorry but I have to say I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT!
    I can't beleave you used the words hippie and Stalinist in the same sentence(oops I just did too). I think the hippies wouldn't like being in a stalinist state. Not very sychadelic.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Here's my prediction if things continue at their current pace, between the gay agenda and the sexualizing of our youth..... by the year 2020, because of several rulings and court orders at the federal level, teenage boys and girls will be forced to engage in a homosexual act in their health class, as part of sex education. Then, once they've tried the other way, the court will allow them to determine if they're gay/straight/or bi.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    That sounds like fun to me Don.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Hey laugh it up, big guy. I nominate your son to play catcher for all the other boys in his class.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    ALSO MAY I ADD
    That by 2065 ethnically born Americans will be the minority in this nation because of the radical leninist pigdogs in government! GAH!

    Why do you hate Freedom?
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    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    Proves America is a radical left wing hippie state ruled by stalinist pigs. I'm sorry but I have to say I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT!
    Yes, we all know the USSR was all so tolerant of homosexuals... Get a clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Here's my prediction if things continue at their current pace, between the gay agenda and the sexualizing of our youth..... by the year 2020, because of several rulings and court orders at the federal level, teenage boys and girls will be forced to engage in a homosexual act in their health class, as part of sex education. Then, once they've tried the other way, the court will allow them to determine if they're gay/straight/or bi.
    Do you really beleive this drivel? Normally I disagree with you but can see where you are coming from, but this just appears to be senseless hyperbole.

    EDIT: Sorry BP, I initially quoted you instead of capo with my top quote. Changed now.
    Last edited by Productivity; 05-15-2005 at 02:39. Reason: Quoted BP, not Capo

  10. #10
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Do you really beleive this drivel? Normally I disagree with you but can see where you are coming from, but this just appears to be senseless hyperbole.
    Im sure it was said tongue in cheek but it is too close to reality to be funny.
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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Without commenting on the issue itself, the American legal system is getting a bit weird......

  12. #12
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgb
    Yes, we all know the USSR was all so tolerant of homosexuals... Get a clue.



    Do you really beleive this drivel? Normally I disagree with you but can see where you are coming from, but this just appears to be senseless hyperbole.

    EDIT: Sorry BP, I initially quoted you instead of capo with my top quote. Changed now.
    I don't actually believe the scenario I proposed will come to pass exactly as I stated, but I am certain other, more bizarre and onerous things will be forced upon the public by a handful of aristocrats in black robes. I'm sorry, I got a little caught up in my screed, and if I offended any homosexual members of the backroom, I apologize.

    Dgb, the US is like no place else on Earth. I know you think it's just that we're more conservative, but in many many ways, we're more liberal than any of you. Do you have a school district requiring a sex education describing how to perform oral sex to 9 year olds (4th grade)? We do! Why? Because oral sex means they won't get AIDS. Our surgeon general wanted each and every school in the country to teach kids how to mastrubate...themselves and each other.

    No matter what it is, we just can't seem to find the middle of the road. Right or left, we live in the land of bizarre hyperbole. The one thing that remains consistent however is the endless march away from democracy....not towards a George Bush led dictatorship, but towards a black robed oligarchy that has no concern for the welfare of it's citizens and seeks other countries crazy laws to set precedent (like Nigeria).
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    A constitutional amendment passed with a 70 percent majority of Nebraska’s voters has been voided.
    Why shouldnt the President have this power or the congress also. I thought they were supposed to be equal branches of the government. Ill tell you why . Because the supreme court gave itself that power unconstitutionaly just as it unconsitutionaly passed Rowe vs Wade. Their just a bunch of lawyers who rarely can some to an agreement on the issue. It seems to me that they should use the super majority rule the same as has to be done with a consitutional amendment to overthrow the will of the people. These 5 to 4 decisions are hardly inspiring of them getting it right. It seems if they cant figure it out how are we poor schleps too?
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
    Proves America is a radical left wing hippie state ruled by stalinist pigs. I'm sorry but I have to say I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT!
    I think I just nearly choked myself to death laughing while drinking, after reading that comment.

    Dear oh dear, Capo you do know comedy.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    A constitutional amendment passed with a 70 percent majority of Nebraska’s voters has been voided.
    Thats just wrong. It would still be wrong even if it was reversed and I was part of the 30% who didnt want gay marriage.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    DANG IT, I am sick of these judges!

    The dems insist that we allow everyone's voice be heard, then go overturning any majority passed law they don't agree with!

    Crazed Rabbit
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    GAH I HATE LIBERALS GAH I HATE JUDGES GAH I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT GAH!

    i'M uberpißed right now

    Why do you hate Freedom?
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    Chief Sniffer Senior Member ichi's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    If one looks at the Constitution and the amendments made to it, one would see that what started out as an enumeration of the rights of individuals (and concomitantly the limitation of state power) is threatened to become a tool of government power.

    The irony of so-called conservatives calling our judges 'activist' in a derogatory fashion because they are doing their job, which is to limit unbridled mob mentality and protect the rights of minorities, the irony and absurdity is remarkable.

    Anyone who supports amending the US Constitution to force government to impose your views on others is neither a conservative nor libertarian. You are the ones who are the radical activists.

    The reason why an amendment is thought to be needed is because honorable decent judges keep reading the US Constitution and discovering that these ridiculous attempts to impose the morality of Christian right on all of us are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, so lets change the Constitution.

    The Constitution protects us from government abuse, mob rule, many many things. Every time one side weakens it we all lose. It has been said that a man who would sacrifice freedom for security has neither.

    Well, a man who would sacrifice freedom for his social views risks having another, perhaps someone who feels diffierently about things, do the same in the future.

    The first ten amendments to the Constitution were called the Bills of Rights for a reason. Think hard before you do anything that you can to win at all costs.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Ichi,

    I usually really respect your opinions, but I think you're dead wrong in that last post. Judges are needed because at the end of the day we're all a lynch mob and need these 'benevolent' dictators to protect us from our base nature? Do you really believe that?

    Let me ask you this... suppose it wasn't gay marriage. Suppose the issue being debated was the age of consent. What if a group out there (and they do exist, believe me) was adovcating that the age of consent should be lowered to 10. Would you still agree that a handful of judges who thought that was a good idea should be free to rewrite any lawbook that held the age of consent at 16? Would you be whining about the tyranny of the majority when people attempted to ammend the constitution to clearly define the age of consent as 16?

    Even if you're in 100% support of gay marriage, and I do support it in the legal sense, this business of 'by any means necessary, give the judges free reign' is dangerous business.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    Member Member Kanamori's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    "I usually really respect your opinions, but I think you're dead wrong in that last post. Judges are needed because at the end of the day we're all a lynch mob and need these 'benevolent' dictators..."

    They keep the uniformity with the Constitution that is protecting from abuse of power. They have no abilty to enforce what they say, so it is far, far from a dictatorship. This amendment is clearly against the Constitution. Are they really being tyrannical? The vast majority of Supreme Court decisions go unnoticed by the populace.

    "...to protect us from our base nature?"

    Don, this is the cornerstone belief that our government was founded on. In fact, the proposed amendment demonstrates its necessity. Do you think the majority of the 70% who ratified it had any idea that the way it was worded carried legal technicalities that certain officials would abuse, and that it was unconstitutional?

  21. #21
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Okay Kanamori,
    Let's just say forget the whole election process. If you need a law degree in order to have anything valid to say, and you need to be a judge in order to be trusted to make a decision, what is the point of elections? If a judge is just going to change approved laws and Constitutional Ammendments to say whatever they want, why bother with the formality? It's what the JUDGE says that matters, right?

    You're right, I'm a mindless goon. So are you, so is any other American without a law degree. We need to be silenced. No wonder Democrats are losing elections... they keep telling their constituents "Vote for me and I'll cede my authority to the nearest judge".
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 05-16-2005 at 18:13.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  22. #22
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    I usually really respect your opinions, but I think you're dead wrong in that last post. Judges are needed because at the end of the day we're all a lynch mob and need these 'benevolent' dictators to protect us from our base nature? Do you really believe that?

    Let me ask you this... suppose it wasn't gay marriage. Suppose the issue being debated was the age of consent. What if a group out there (and they do exist, believe me) was adovcating that the age of consent should be lowered to 10. Would you still agree that a handful of judges who thought that was a good idea should be free to rewrite any lawbook that held the age of consent at 16? Would you be whining about the tyranny of the majority when people attempted to ammend the constitution to clearly define the age of consent as 16?

    Even if you're in 100% support of gay marriage, and I do support it in the legal sense, this business of 'by any means necessary, give the judges free reign' is dangerous business.
    Actually Don, I think you need to put the shoe on the other foot using your very same example. What if a 70% majority in the legislature enacted a new law lowering the age of consent to 10 years old, but then the "activist judges" overturned the law. Would you still be upset with them for thwarting the "will of the people?"

    The funniest thing about this article is when the author first says this:

    There could be no clearer demonstration of the arrogance of activist judges.
    then (I am assuming, with a straight face) goes on to say this:

    This should remind Republican senators of the urgent need to confirm the president’s nominees to the bench.
    Apparently activist judges are okay, as long as they are anti-gay activist judges.



    Then the author just keeps the laughs a-comin' with this little pearl:

    And of course this decision clearly shows that, without a federal marriage amendment, same-sex marriage is destined to be imposed on the country by the courts.
    This just kills me. Please describe any circumstance where any person, gay or straight, will ever be forced into (or even forced to attend) a same-sex marriage because of the actions of the court. Same-sex marriage is not being imposed on anybody.

    This author needs to grab himself a coffee and a nice big slice of reality pie.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  23. #23
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Actually Don, I think you need to put the shoe on the other foot using your very same example. What if a 70% majority in the legislature enacted a new law lowering the age of consent to 10 years old, but then the "activist judges" overturned the law. Would you still be upset with them for thwarting the "will of the people?"
    I would recognize that I live in a pluralistic society and I find the plurality intolerable and would leave. I'm actually not all that far away as we speak.

    I don't want my children to be taught:

    There's no such thing as God and anybody who believes in him is stupid in school.

    That Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance but Christianity is all about oppression and causing suffering.

    That they have no right to defend themselves and if a serial killer wants to rape them, they have to wait for a policeman to come along to stop it.

    That they can't do anything on their own, they need the government to tell them which nostril to blow first.

    That no matter what the majority say, as long as the priestly caste of judges decree an edict, they must never question it again.

    We live in an aristocracy that is controlled by the judges. That's why you Democrats won't allow any moderate judges through. If they're not pro-abortion, pro-world-government, pro-leftist agenda, you'll abuse any cheap parlor trick you can to make certain they don't get up to bat.

    And Goofy, the author wasn't talking about judges that would implement a conservative agenda. Scalia has frequently sided against political conservatives when they have asked to be granted a right or a special action by the court. Conservative in the judicial sense should really be changed to 'minimalist'. Scalia admits to being a political conservative, but he doesn't believe it should be the courts that make our laws that way.
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 05-16-2005 at 18:21.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

  24. #24
    Member Member Kanamori's Avatar
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    Default Re: A ruling in Nebraska demonstrates the need for a federal marriage amendment.

    "Let's just say forget the whole election process."

    Hmm...nope. Our legislators play more of a roll than Supreme Court judges could ever, in their wildest orgiastic and masturbational dreams for oligarchy, hope to have. By and large, almost any law can avoid conflict with the constitution and keep the base of its meaning.

    "If you need a law degree in order to have anything valid to say, and you need to be a judge in order to be trusted to make a decision, what is the point of elections?"

    If they reworded their state amendment, it would be perfectly acceptable with the constitution, but right now, it refuses to acknowledge the existence of a group of people.

    "If a judge is just going to change approved laws and Constitutional Ammendments to say whatever they want, why bother with the formality?"

    They don't change laws. The Courts cannot say a damn thing about federal constitutional amendments. However, states that entered the union must abide by the federal constitution, meaning their amendments must be within the federal constitution, too.

    "You're right, I'm a mindless goon."

    Never said anything like that.

    "So are you, so is any other American without a law degree."

    No, my prose may be shit and my language vague, but I am not mindless. Ironically, this is what I'm going to school for, rather than biomed or electrical engineering (watch out how you address your future dictator ).

    "We need to be silenced."

    No, this decision is protecting our right to speak.


    "I don't want my children to be taught:

    There's no such thing as God and anybody who believes in him is stupid in school.

    That Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance but Christianity is all about oppression and causing suffering.

    That they have no right to defend themselves and if a serial killer wants to rape them, they have to wait for a policeman to come along to stop it.

    That they can't do anything on their own, they need the government to tell them which nostril to blow first.

    That no matter what the majority say, as long as the priestly caste of judges decree an edict, they must never question it again."

    My teachers expressly say, "THESE THEORIES MAY COINCIDE WITH THEORIES DESCRIBED IN RELIGIOUS TEXTS."

    My teachers neither attempt to convert us to Christianity nor to convert us to Islam, they neither portray Christianity in a negative light nor do they portray Islam in a negative light. My education is paid by my community. As such, they leave factual teaching to the community schools and moral teaching to the families.

    My teachers, besides my curmudgeon of an old math teacher, tell us "The government is run by those who show up."

    "We live in an aristocracy that is controlled by the judges."

    I'm sorry, but

    "That's why you Democrats won't allow any moderate judges through. If they're not pro-abortion, pro-world-government, pro-leftist agenda, you'll abuse any cheap parlor trick you can to make certain they don't get up to bat."

    I find that you'll particlulary accusatory (I am not a democrat and claim no party affiliation); you are placing blame in the wrong spot. And, Griffin and McKeague, at least, are far from being moderate.

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