Welcome to New Labours Britain

[Tribesman]

..."its the only language they understand"...
So you think it is right that an officer who is supposed to uphold the law uses racial abuse and threatens with violence do you ?
You sad man

[ah_dut]

..."its the only language they understand"...
So you think it is right that an officer who is supposed to uphold the law uses racial abuse and threatens with violence do you ?
You sad man

Err can I defend him? I never claimed that racial abuse was the solution, neither do I think that the threat of violence is neccesarily a solution...I think 1 or 2 bobbies on the beat might help...I am not ribbing anyone, I am totally serious, I haven't seen a bobby on the beat where I live for weeks if not months...granted that there's very low crime where I live but when you do get mugged or whatever it would be reassuring for a policeman to be less than 10 minutes by car away in Wimbledon...

Well corporal punishment may help some extreme cases...but I dobt it's a general solution, neither is a boot camp. Pikeys and trevs are very brave against people perceived to be weak...they're just cowards inside. The yobbos can only oppress the weak and so therefore you need a strong police prescence no?

[King Henry V]

More often than not, these yobs only fear physical punishment. Now that the laws bans any one giving them a damn good hiding, or any sort of punishment at all, there is no way stop them from continuing in their behaviour. Even if you wan to tell them off, one has to go through the "proper channels" and not shout at them directly. Often, the only way to combat violence is with violence. There are only certain people who appreciate mercy, and yobs are not those people.

[JAG]

I have done a great deal of thinking on this issue since it really became a big political one, in the last few weeks. It made me think more because I have directly experienced what the politicians have all been ranting and raving about. I have adjusted my positions a bit as well because it is clear that something does need to be done. However I have to state that it does have nothing to do with Labour specifically, but more to do with consistent failure by all govts for a long time - though this govt has taken good measures to address the problems which I applaud it on.

My change of stance is this: though I still firmly believe that the causes of crime - being the underlying problems in society as EA touched on when he nicked my hat - are the real and long term reasons for this yobbish behaviour and the growth of it in recent years there needs more to be done than simply trying to fix the problems in society without tackling the current problems with the gang violence as well.

The recent upturn in this yobbish behaviour I think can be directly linked to the growing separation of the lower depths of the working class and the parts of the working class who, because of SOME of Thatchers policies, clawed themselves slightly higher up the ladder - right to buy being one - I still think the policy stinks and was a disgrace and never should have been brought in but that isn't the point.. It would be dishonest of me if I stated it didn't help some working class people gain footholds. But because of the same policies while some working class families got better off, a lot of specific areas in Britain and the lower ends of the working class got even more adrift and disgracefully under 8 years of a Labour govt that STILL hasn't been fully changed - areas such as ex mining towns, central London areas like Bethnal Green etc. This has meant the distrust and hate for the establishment and the disillusionment with some people has grown and the yobbish behaviour has become more violent.

Now though this still means the underlying problems in society are to blame and I still fully agree with that, the problem has evidently got worse, so with serious attempts to rebuild the faith in society - serious attempts like the New Deal and rebuilding community centres which this govt has done but oh so slowly and the speeding up of benefits to those in the most needy situations, which this govt has also done but so, so slowly - there needs to be short term crack downs on certain types of behaviour. Behaviour such as congregating in groups around certain points in town needs to be broken up by police because it does intimidate people, the banning of certain clothing such as the hoodies in specific places, etc. Measures like this should be taken but ONLY if they are done with the more important social changes. If that happened I think we would see a decline in the problems like we are witnessing.

[King Henry V]

Yes, but yobbism isn't against the wealthier classes, it's against their own neighbours and so on. Yet before there was poverty worse than their is today and their wasn't any major problem with yobbism. Why? Because before people were allowed to take some sort of justice into their own hands. I am not condoning lynch mobs and so on, yet if a shopkeeper caught a youth in flagrante delicto stealing, then no one (apart from the youth of course) would object if he took his belt of and gave him a good hiding. Today, he would have to call the police, the police would arrive sooner or later (often later), somebody from social security would be called, a child welfare officer would be summone, a report would be filled, the youth would be taken to the station, it would be given a cup of tea and probably told that it wasn't really it's fault and that they would be let go with that painful of sanctions: the caution. This would could take anything between two and five hours. Time for giving it a sore arse: five minutes.

[ShadesWolf]

You can also add to that when I was at school you respected the teachers and the police, and if you got into trouble with either you had your dad to deal with when he got home from work.

now the yobs dont respect their parents or the police, and the poor teachers have no way of dealing with bad behaviour. Ive seen the cain/ slipper used, board rubbers etc., now its the other way round.

And we are to believe things are far better today.

[GoreBag]

Just what the crap is a yobb anyway?

[Adrian II]

It looks like Mr Ewen, the Head of Islington Arts and Media School in Finsbury Park, has found the half way house in dealing with yobbism in general and the respect issue in schools in particular. No coppers were called in to bash in pupils' faces, no social programmes were needed to create opportunities for difficult youngsters. Just uniforms, attendance checks, and supervised schoolwork instead of expulsions.

The previous head claimed that saving the school would have meant expelling as many as 50 troublemakers. But Mr Ewen has taken a different route, setting up an "inclusion centre" (a sort of in-house "sin-bin") where difficult pupils can be sent for a week while still studying the full national curriculum. "It made sense to give them something to do - make sure they were still having lessons - instead of excluding them and sending them home to watch the racing from Newmarket on TV," he said.

George Green's school in Tower Hamlets succeeded with a rather more forensic experiment, as the article describes. However, in both cases the message seems to be as Sir Alan says: 'We have to be careful that we do not spend all our time talking about whether we should punish children this way or that. It is a pretty sterile discussion. The real skill is making sure you don't have to punish them at all by having a focus on consistency of good lessons and good teaching.'

Link

[ah_dut]

Just what the crap is a yobb anyway?

A Yob is a thug/pikey/trev/general idiot who terrorises people for laughs or just generally.

Thanks Ah Dut.

Nice to know I still exist after EPIII

My change of stance is this: though I still firmly believe that the causes of crime

Yup, the absolute refusal to do anything constructive against the problem. I mean when the heck did paying people more help? I mean many yobbos are the sons of very rich people

[English assassin]

..."its the only language they understand"...
So you think it is right that an officer who is supposed to uphold the law uses racial abuse and threatens with violence do you ?
You sad man

Err, no. That was a joke. Did you see the quotes? As in, "this is what a stereotypically stupid person might say, and now I will go on to make my point."

Which was (1) that the boy started recording at a point in the conversation convenient to him (this does not excuse the abuse but if he had said "you ***** ******* police **** filth are all the same why don't you **** off back to the sty piggie?" (presses record) it would make you look at things a luittle differently) and (2) if you are a copper and you see people who you think are serious crims and who get off on technicalities it must be a bit difficult to be nice to them.

But no, I don't think racial abuse and threats of violence should be part of police work, thanks for the chance to clear that up.

Thanks Ah Dut.

Perhaps the knife you just put in the Baroness' overpaid back. As far as I can Google, she has never ever said one should be nicer to yobbos. I mean, it is her views you take issue with, or are you just jealous at her income?

It would be a pay cut mate The particular article I was thinking of was in the Camden New Journal which may not rank that highly on Google. Just trust me, would I lie to a journalist?...

[Adrian II]

It would be a pay cut mate

Thought so!

Just trust me, would I lie to a journalist?...

Are you, or have you ever been...
Never mind. I think JAG has found the entrance to the half way house, but he doesn't have the key. Do you?