Israel/Palestine Question

**Don Corleone** · 05-19-2005, 06:32

Originally Posted by Papewaio

No you shouldn't because how is the hate going to make you feel better if you don't do anything with it? Hate is as much a cancer to the holder as anything else.

Also I thought the images of Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11 where refuted as being media libarary images from a separate event.

Either way do you really what to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few?

Of course I don't. I wouldn't have offered the point for debate if I still clung to it. Honestly, Pape, don't know where you're getting your 'they weren't celebrating' proof from, but I saw it on BBC, not exactly a pro-America proganda channel.

This is my point. You say "Hate breeds hate". I say no it doesn't. Somebody has to stand up and say "I'll take it and let it end with me". As long as we're trying to sort out who did what to whom, we play the devil's game. It's been hard, harder than you could ever possibly know, but I have come to a place where I pray for Palestinians, to have a safe and happy home. I know they hate me. I know they'll continue to, long into the future. That's not the point. The point is, when my number comes up, I can answer "Yes sir, I did as you told me. I forgave". I think it's time for everyone else to.

**Papewaio** · 05-19-2005, 07:20

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

This is my point. You say "Hate breeds hate". I say no it doesn't. Somebody has to stand up and say "I'll take it and let it end with me". As long as we're trying to sort out who did what to whom, we play the devil's game. It's been hard, harder than you could ever possibly know, but I have come to a place where I pray for Palestinians, to have a safe and happy home. I know they hate me. I know they'll continue to, long into the future. That's not the point. The point is, when my number comes up, I can answer "Yes sir, I did as you told me. I forgave". I think it's time for everyone else to.

Which makes yourself far more mature then the majority in the world. The question then is how did can we get more people to follow your example?

BTW went to Snopes.com, they confirmed the CNN footage was accurate. What a screwed up thing to celebrate.

CNN used old footage to fake images of 'Palestinians dancing in the street' after the terrorist attack on the USA.

**Don Corleone** · 05-19-2005, 07:26

Pape, I respect you too much to get into this. Was every picture broadcast on 9/12 a live image? No. But let's not kid ourselves. Arafat had his guards out in the street ripping film out of foreign journalists cameras. So, did they resort to stock footage? Yes. We all know what happened. If you really insist, I'll waste my day off tomorrow dredging up links, but as a shortcut, go to Al Jazeera, they still have them in their archives, if you search with the right terms.

**Papewaio** · 05-19-2005, 07:29

Dude read the link it confirms that CNN footage was not faked.

**Don Corleone** · 05-19-2005, 07:44

Sorry, I read the headline, which was actually the claim proven to be false.

I stand by my original claim. We are all going to have to suck it up. I'm not going to lie and pretend I'm not boiling just thinking about all of this again. But it's not going to end until it does....

Man, this is harder to type then I thought it was going to be...

..... Okay, they're not looking for forgiveness, but I don't care. I give it. I just want them to know they celebrated the murder of a good man, a decent man, and a guy who was very good to me. Jim Greenleaf was a hell of a guy, and for all the stereotypes of jocks, he used to make the rest of us go do charity work. The world lost something when he left.

Anyways, enough with the emotional rants. They're going to have to come to a place where they can say and do what they claim they want. I dont' argue that Israel makes it easy, but, as I mentioned above, forgiveness never is.

Two states everyone?

**PanzerJaeger** · 05-19-2005, 07:48

Bah, Panzer, come on, we have no right to sovereignty if you're going to use that criteria. Anything East of the Ohio, north of the Tennessee belongs to England, and the rest to Spain and France. You can always find prior owners.

No, you will find we have plenty of documentation from the Spanish, English and French that stands as proof of either our purchase of the land or our winning it in a war.

**Don Corleone** · 05-19-2005, 07:56

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not, at different times, defend claims with each of the above mentioned nations, with force of arms, at one point or another? I'm not arguring we weren't right to do so, I'm arguing as far as they were concerned, the matter was far from settled.

**PanzerJaeger** · 05-19-2005, 08:03

Actually i believe our issues with those countries were settled.

Spain ceded florida and some other territory first with Jackson and ending with the Spanish American war.

England was forced to cede the colonies of course and subsequently(after another war) acknowledged the fact that the US did in fact own the land England once did.

And France simply sold us a lot of land if im not mistaken.

My point is that its hard to tell if the palestinians ever owned any of the land they seek. It was turkish, then it was ceded, legally, to Britain.