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Thread: Pirates!

  1. #1
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Pirates!

    So what is your opinion : is a person should be blamed for bying pirate's disks?
    On the hand it is obviosly bad , because he buys stolen job , and the good guys from the company who made the disk don't get their rightly earned money , but on the other hand what person should do if he comes to the shop and see ONLY pirate's produced disks , and if he have to pay for his education , for his leasure time e.t.c.?

  2. #2
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Yes, if they know that the disks are pirated. I would never buy pirated disks, they never work for me ... what? I didn't say that...
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    "Wherever this stone shall lie, the King of the Scots shall rule"
    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

  3. #3
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    But if there are no other produvtion avaluable?

  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    I never buy pirated stuff, easy theft is still theft. Wait for the bargain bin if you are too poor to pay 60 euro.

  5. #5
    Hǫr­ar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Buy pirated stuff? Never thought of that as an option.

    I thought piracy was meaning downloading from the i.net rather buying it.
    Why buy a pirate version when you can buy one that are legal, are they that much cheaper?
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  6. #6
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    are they that much cheaper?
    Oh lord yes.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  7. #7
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Yes, but I'm pretty sure that is legal to do overhere, as is downloading anything from the net.

    At least for a little while longer, they're changing the IP laws.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Yes, but I'm pretty sure that is legal to do overhere, as is downloading anything from the net.

    At least for a little while longer, they're changing the IP laws.
    No, it isn't. Games have copyright, just like cd's. Publishers created their own monster with the prices they ask, but that is their choice, and not copying/downloading stuff is mine. Stealing is stealing if you ask me, even if everyone does it.

  9. #9
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    i never buy pirated stuff. tough i do sometimes copy a game from a friend (as far as i know these are original cd's)

    We do not sow.

  10. #10
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    It is the same that buying!

  11. #11
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    I never buy pirated stuff, I get it for free

    No but seriously, I do that just to check if the game is worth it. I feel it keeps the producers in check.

    After I try it out and like I consider purchasing it. I don't see this as being any different from let's say buying a house. You don't buy a house at random when you have no idea what's in it and wether you would like living there. And people don't make it illigal for you to go inside a little to see it do they? Is that piracy too(lol)?

  12. #12
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Check new comer question thread in colluseum,
    and keep in mind that I want to buy legal copy , but when :
    1. I have enough free money ;
    2. After E.B. expansion.

  13. #13
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    No, it isn't. Games have copyright, just like cd's. Publishers created their own monster with the prices they ask, but that is their choice, and not copying/downloading stuff is mine. Stealing is stealing if you ask me, even if everyone does it.
    It is illegal to MAKE copies for use outside the family circle,, apparently, downloading doesn't fit this description, as it is making a copy for your own use. Under Belgian law, only the distributer of illegal material is held accountable.

    The new law will make it illegal to own or use anything that circumvents copyright protection. This includes mod chips, no cd hacks, etc.

    I think they are also going to extend this to 'all material acquired with these tools' or some other legal description, so that would make downloading hacked games illegal.

    Just to be clear, I don't download or copy since I think it is morally wrong.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  14. #14
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    This reminds me of something. Apparently a student on a gap year in Australia was on a boat that was captured by pirates. REAL PIRATES as in the kind who board ships and rape, plunder and pillage - not the sort of sissies who think they're a bit risque because they download a keygen once.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  15. #15
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    And what?

  16. #16
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by IliaDN
    and if he have to pay for his education , for his leasure time e.t.c.?
    The fact that you can't afford RTW retail does not mean you have any justification or right to steal it. Few of us can afford everything we want. We all manage to prioritise by marginal value, you can as well.

    I find it difficult to beleive that with the level of internet shopping available, it is impossible for you to buy legitimate games.
    Last edited by Productivity; 05-19-2005 at 17:03.

  17. #17
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!




    No but isn't more fair if you can try the full game before purchasing it? I think it is. In some cases you don't need to like RTW because you know what it's like, but for other games it's much harder to tell.

  18. #18
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince



    No but isn't more fair if you can try the full game before purchasing it? I think it is. In some cases you don't need to like RTW because you know what it's like, but for other games it's much harder to tell.
    That's the risk you take. There is no absolute right to be able to try before you buy. Some goods have this, but plenty don't. Do you go into a supermarket and demand to eat an apple before you will buy any?

  19. #19
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    That's a very bad example. You don't need to try fruit before you buy it, lol.

    A better one and one that has similar price range, do you walk into a watch store and NOT adk to try wearing the watch to see if it fits and if you like it.

  20. #20
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    That's a very bad example. You don't need to try fruit before you buy it, lol.

    A better one and one that has similar price range, do you walk into a watch store and NOT adk to try wearing the watch to see if it fits and if you like it.
    You try it on. For five minutes. That is hardly equivalent to playing through a game for a reasonable amount of time.

    But if you want to go for a isoprice example, you don't read a book before buying it.

    Lets face it, you and all pirates are trying to justify somethign that in the eyes of society is morally wrong. I'm not going to get sanctimonious about actually pirating (although I am going to sit here with a stick and poke holes in any argument I can), I've done it before (I no longer pirate, everything I have now is legitimate), but never once did I try to come up with pissy justifications for it.

  21. #21
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    In some countries like Japan it's completely legal dgb.

    I'm not a moral person but if it's illigal I won't do it. I don't pirate anymore, I don't like games that much anymore anyhow. When I used to do it it was legal though, or I didn't know it wasn't.

  22. #22
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    In some countries like Japan it's completely legal dgb.
    You are not in Japan. In a dialogue between you and I, only the laws and moral standards of two countries matter. Australia, Canada.

    I did not know that it was legal to copy/download copyrighted material in Canada, and to be honest I find it quite strange to say the least.

    If you are not a moral person, why are you wasting your time trying to come up with morally sound reasons to pirate?

  23. #23
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    In my opinion as far as moral options are concered there are more important things to carry about ( such as helping others , loving people e.t.c. )!

  24. #24
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    You thought those were moral? No they were simply world-market reasons. You shouldn't be forced to keep something that you don't want that seemed perfect before the purchase.

    Again you don't buy a car when you don't even know how it looks inside.

    Now you're gonna say that "well you can keep a pirated game forever", right? Well, you don't have to. It's up to you to do the right thing. The copy is never as good as the original anyways.

  25. #25
    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by IliaDN
    In my opinion as far as moral options are concered there are more important things to carry about ( such as helping others , loving people e.t.c. )!
    What is your point? There are more moral things that can be done with your money, so you think it is right to steal? Again it comes down to priorities. If you want to help others and give money to charity, do so. But that requires you to prioritise your money at the expense of something else, in this case, R:TW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    You thought those were moral? No they were simply world-market reasons. You shouldn't be forced to keep something that you don't want that seemed perfect before the purchase.
    No, they were attempted moralisations, using (bad) economics as a justification. The fact that you do not have sufficient information about a product before a purchase is no reason to be able to steal something. You can accept the risk and purchase it anyway, not accept the risk and do not purchase it, or wait to gain more information. All three of those are legal and moral. Stealing it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    Again you don't buy a car when you don't even know how it looks inside.
    Hold on, a few posts up you were haranguing me about using an example that was of a price different to a game. Now you go and compare a car to a game. Make up your mind. Either we can compare things with different prices or we can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    Now you're gonna say that "well you can keep a pirated game forever", right? Well, you don't have to. It's up to you to do the right thing. The copy is never as good as the original anyways.
    Well I wasn't, but since you decided to bring it up I'll deal with it, you say it is up to the pirate to do the right thing. Let's look at you here. You have allready admitted you are not a moral person. Furthermore, you have allready stolen it, again you are not painting a picture of yourself that says "I am one likely to do the right thing". My faith in you, or any pirate to do the right thing can be approximated to zero.

    But regardless, lets actually attack the main body of this argument. Even if you do "the right thing", you have still held it for some time, and taken advantage of it. You have stolen for that time. Now you have two options here, you destroy the pirated copy and buy it or you destroy it and don't. If you destroy it and buy it, for the sake of simplicity, I'll agree that for that game, there was no moral wrong.

    However the second option means that you have played the game (presumably substantially because you want to get a feel for it beyond what a review writes), without paying for that priveledge (and yes it is a priveledge, even if you do not enjoy it). In this case a moral wrong has occured. You have appropriated a priveledge, without any form of compensation.

    Now we have two scenarios, one in which there is no moral wrong, another where there is. However because any real life case of a pirate pirating to check games first would have a mixture of the two (because if it was allways the case that you buy the game afterwards, why would you bother pirating beforehand?), there will allways be a degree of moral wrong.

    The only moral justification for pirating is if you allways by the games afterwards, and if that is the case, there is no point to pirating.

    Feel free to keep pirating, I'm not going to try and stop you. But please don't keep driveling this pseudo-moral garbage.



    Anyway, I'm going to bed.

  26. #26
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Why do you drag morals into this? Are you afraid that you cannot make your point otherwise. No one needs to follow morals, EVERYONE needs to follow the law.

    As far as I know there is no law here in Canada against this. If someone wants to correct me they are welcome.

    To add on to that even if there was law that I don't know of, it's impossible to keep it in check because of this:
    Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act
    No has the right to mess with your files or anything that could be considered private.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    To add on to that even if there was law that I don't know of, it's impossible to keep it in check because of this:
    Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act
    No has the right to mess with your files or anything that could be considered private.
    In the last point you are basically just saying that it's OK to break laws as long as you can avoid getting caught.

  28. #28
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    No my point was that they can't check it, therefore it would be mostly useless to even devise such a law.

    Again if there is a law against this I don't know about you are welcome to point that out with some evidence.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    Again if there is a law against this I don't know about you are welcome to point that out with some evidence.
    I leave that to your fellow Canadians as I am personally not that interested in the detailed copyright legislation of individual countries other than my own

  30. #30
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirates!

    Quote Originally Posted by IliaDN
    It is the same that buying!
    it isn't really pirated, it is pirated a little bit, but atleast they got cash for one disc, and they can always go selling empty cd's

    We do not sow.

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