Were nazis really looking for devilish things ?

[Meneldil]

Lately, I ordrered a comic strip on Amazon called 'Prisoner of Ice'. Basically, in this story (loosely based on H.P. Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu stories), nazis achieved to conquer the whole world thanks to ancient sorcery and deities.

Furthermore, in Indiana Jones I and III, nazis are also looking for ancient artefacts (the Holy Grail and the Alliance Ark -sp?). There's also a whole load of stupid horror movies with a nazi mad scientist leading an army of zombies, or the good old "Nazi haunted ship discovered by a group of silly teens", etc.
There's also some Role Playing Games (as "Call of Cthulhu - Delta Green) and video games (Return to Wolfenstein's Castle is a good example). I'm probably forgetting many many things that deal with that matter.

Is there any evidence to backup that, or is it pure fantasy ? I once read something about a SS division that was investigating about weird stuffs in France and Italy, but I can't find anything on that matter anymore.

[Templar Knight]

I was watching a documentary a while ago about nazi scientists and explorers who went to places like Tibet and other countries looking for the Ayran race, which they believed started in that region. Apparently this led certain people to try and look for the holy grail since they thought that they were the 'pure' race - whither that was Hitlers plan or just the ideas of some mad nazis who knows?

[Adrian II]

I was watching a documentary a while ago about nazi scientists and explorers who went to places like Tibet and other countries looking for the Ayran race, which they believed started in that region. Apparently this led certain people to try and look for the holy grail since they thought that they were the 'pure' race - whither that was Hitlers plan or just the ideas of some mad nazis who knows?

You mean Haushofer & Co? They went there at the invitation of the Tibetan government, ostensibly to look for ancestors of the Nordic peoples, but from my reading as a student I seem to remember they were fascinated by Tibetan culture well before 1933 and merely took the opportunity to visit the country under the guise of SS science. Some of Haushofer's stuff has been preserved, I believe I read one his reports in the seventies which was available through our Leiden University library. The SS had an Ahnenerbe ('ancestors' legacy') department where bespectacled morons propagated theories about the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, the mythical land of Thule and a geographical theory that the earth' surface was concave instead of convex. We should be posthumously grateful to the idiots, they helped to lose the war.

[Templar Knight]

You mean Haushofer & Co? They went there at the invitation of the Tibetan government, ostensibly to look for ancestors of the Nordic peoples, but from my reading as a student I seem to remember they were fascinated by Tibetan culture well before 1933 and merely took the opportunity to visit the country under the guise of SS science. Some of Haushofer's stuff has been preserved, I believe I read one his reports in the seventies which was available through our Leiden University library. The SS had an Ahnenerbe ('ancestors' legacy') department where bespectacled morons propagated theories about the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, the mythical land of Thule and a geographical theory that the earth' surface was concave instead of convex. We should be posthumously grateful to the idiots, they helped to lose the war.

Yea, that was it

Did they openly look for it?

[Adrian II]

Yea, that was it

Did they openly look for it?

I'm pretty sure Haushofer looked for the 'cradle of the Aryan race' but I believe others in the expedition were merely collecting athropological data. There is a lot of speculative bullshit about this supposed 'mystical cult' of the Nazi's on the Web, connecting Hitler's inner circle and in particular the SS chief Heinrich Himmler to Gurdieff's and Blavatsky's mysticism, the bloodline of Christ, blabla...

[Templar Knight]

I'm pretty sure Haushofer looked for the 'cradle of the Aryan race' but I believe others in the expedition were merely collecting athropological data. There is a lot of speculative bullshit about this supposed 'mystical cult' of the Nazi's on the Web, connecting Hitler's inner circle and in particular the SS chief Heinrich Himmler to Gurdieff's and Blavatsky's mysticism, the bloodline of Christ, blabla...

good propaganda no? Installs a sort of ''invinsible / we cant fail or be defeated''

[Adrian II]

good propaganda no? Installs a sort of ''invinsible / we cant fail or be defeated''

I believe one prosecutor's account from the Nuremberg trial has it that several high Nazi's were observed consulting their 'gods' by throwing handfuls of tiny bones on the floor and studying the figures they made. Don't ask me which memoires, of what kind of bones. Chicken bones would have been fitting, though...

[Steppe Merc]

I believe they were looking for artifacts of the great Aryan race. They looked all over for things, and they often just made things up. Like I know that Himmler was looking for some famous German king, couldn't find him, so just took some artifcats from a random castle and said he found something. I watched a TV special on it, but it was a while ago, so I kind of forget...

[PanzerJaeger]

This was mostly done by Himmler and other non-military nazi elites, and was laughed at by most of the military leaders and Hitler seemed to ignore it - as he did with so much of Himmlers odd fantasies.

Theres some great stuff out there on nazi mysticism.. very interesting but check sources because alot of it is fiction.

[Meneldil]

Dunno why, but I knew you would answer to that topic someday ;-P

More seriously, could you point me to a good book on that topic please ? If possible in english.

[xemitg]

Just play Return to Castle Wolfenstein. That answers all your questions.

[Templar Knight]

Theres some great stuff out there on nazi mysticism.. very interesting but check sources because alot of it is fiction.

Do you know of any good websites?

[PanzerJaeger]

Lewis Spence, the scottish guy, actually wrote a good book during ww2 about it. -Occult Causes of the Present War

Most of the Nazi's occult trappings came from the Thule Society.They actually had a goal of bringing back Volk magic. They were trying to blend Christianity with the old Norse religion to make thier beliefs more acceptable to the masses. Under their teachings, Jesus was another representation of Balder.

Heres a good link: http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html

It seems that most Nazi's subscription to this stuff was only skin deep, but that isnt what the conspiricists would have you believe.

I read a good one a few years ago that tied in the Illuminanti, Nazism and George Bush the first into a huge conspiracy to form the new world order. Proof? Well its right on our money.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Masonic Conspiracy! Ahhh!

[GoreBag]

Well, I know Hitler was himself very interested in the occult, and I think he belonged to an occult lodge where Aleister Crowley once belonged. It was Hitler's exposure to the occult that brought him to choose the swastika as the symbol for his regime when it became to do so.

The rest of it can be chocked up to being one-half reformation, one half propagation.

[doc_bean]

It was really just the age old propaganda to justify what they were doing, the Nazi's tried to see themselves as a superior race that had a right to conquer the world (and kill the jews), but this required they do some 'cleaning' of ideas, which is why they tried to bring back old germanic ideas/heroes and even Gods (since christianity originated with the jews, some of the more extreme nazi's didn't like that either.)

About the US masonic conspiracy, there were a lot of Masons amongst the Founding Fathers, there even was the Anti-Masonic party once. But to believe it's all some giant conspiracy ?

[Byzantine Prince]

Here's a nice little website about the symbols and runes and their "magical" properties: runes.html

[Mikeus Caesar]

Ooh...i'm hoping this turns into a conspiracy topic, then it'll will be my time to shine!

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Dunno why, but I knew you would answer to that topic someday ;-P

More seriously, could you point me to a good book on that topic please ? If possible in english.

A book?

Try "le matin des magiciens" by Powels and Bergier.

I'll let Adrian speak about it

Louis,

[monkian]

I saw a prog on the History channel about Nazis and the occult.

Himmer searched high and low for the 'spear of destiny' which made its owner invincible.

Apparently this was the spear that pierced Christ during his crucifiction.

The Nazis of course more or less disbanded the Christian church and used lots of early Germanic/pagan folklore.