Proud to pay my taxes

**KukriKhan** · 05-23-2005, 13:56

So for how long will this ummm... non-traditional family be subsidized? And is there any connection made between the fathers and reimbursement? In other words, if one or more of the fathers are found/revealed/come forward, will the government take money from them to compensate for the tax money spent?

**Fragony** · 05-23-2005, 14:03

@subject

Well if a certain brand of politician keeps blaiming society people will use it.

**English assassin** · 05-23-2005, 14:38

This is exactly what I meant when in the other thread I said our social fabric is eaten away by consumerism, marketisation, by financial valorisation replacing real values. Here's a family suffering from lack of responsibility from various parties, and it starts you off on a rant about your money and they way you would take your anger out on the girls, who are minors.

I'm missing the bit where I said the girls should be punished? The mother, yes. She hardly looked after her children did she.

Well if a certain brand of politician keeps blaiming society people will use it.

There we have the two positions. Is it consumerism etc that has caused this or is it the fact that people are forever told don't worry its not your fault we'll sort you out? I can see why Frag might be right AII but I'm not seeing your argument just yet.

So for how long will this ummm... non-traditional family be subsidized? And is there any connection made between the fathers and reimbursement? In other words, if one or more of the fathers are found/revealed/come forward, will the government take money from them to compensate for the tax money spent?

If a father is named, the Child Support Agency will in principle deduct maintenance payments from his excess income to pay to the mother. However it is very easy to avoid this, thus:

(1) Do not be named as the father. You can do this by telling the mother you will "smash her**** face in," as I think the traditional phrase is, if she puts you down on the birth certificate. Or you can knock up some silly under age bint (who I read in another paper had had an abortion and two miscarriages before the baby that went to term, come ON Mrs Atkins, its not the stork banging your daughters up you know) who thinks its romantic that she is having forbidden love. So the violent and the borderline paedophiles get off.

(2) Have no (official) money. Cash in hand jobs are of course OK because no one knows about them.

(3) Just be too difficult. The CSA deals with 100's of thousands of cases. Move house occasionally, don't open your mail, change jobs, and the bureaucracy just never catches up with you. If you are caught, deny paternity, it takes the ages to get an order for a DNA test and by then you are off again...

What you must NOT do of course is have a stable job and home and pay your taxes like a good boy. Do that and they come along and dock 25% of your income.

**Adrian II** · 05-23-2005, 14:51

Originally Posted by English assassin

Is it consumerism etc that has caused this or is it the fact that people are forever told don't worry its not your fault we'll sort you out?

Could you or Fragony point out a politician who blames this sort of situation on 'society'?

**Fragony** · 05-23-2005, 15:09

Originally Posted by AdrianII

Could you or Fragony point out a politician who blames this sort of situation on 'society'?

Are you really asking me this?

**Adrian II** · 05-23-2005, 16:00

Originally Posted by Fragony

Are you really asking me this?

Are you short of examples?

**Fragony** · 05-23-2005, 16:08

Originally Posted by AdrianII

Are you short of examples?

Ah common, the entire left. Isn't that exactly what being left is about? Making up apoligies for what you wouldn't allow yourselve in te first place? Make a pick, all the politicians from PVDA, Groen-links, SP, all the same.

**English assassin** · 05-23-2005, 16:15

Well it depends what you mean by "this sort of situation". Gordon Brown, for example, would presumably deny that there is anything in means testing the Family Tax credit that actually REQUIRES girls to get pregnant before they are 16, and he would be right. But I think it is fair to say that "society is to blame" is a reasonably common, one might say stereotypical attitude in new labour, whereas no, YOU are to blame would be the reasonably common, one might say stereotypical attitude of a right of centre party.

I mean, look, apart from anything else society has criminalised sex with grils this age AND (and you may feel contradictorily) ensured that they have access to free contraception. They have access to free education up to the age of 18, and it used to be free til the end of University but New Labour stopped that. Its still free if you are poor enough. Finally they live in a society where their equal right to work and a right to equal pay is enshrined in law. In no sense were their only life choices getting pregant and living on the dole.

Short of having Ann Widdecombe walk round behind them with a big sign saying "DO NOT SHAG THIS GIRL" I fail to see what more society could do?