Motassadeq

[Franconicus]

Here’s is s.th. I do not understand.http://www.heute.de/ZDFheute/inhalt/...302810,00.html

After 9/11 a man called Motassadeq was accused in Germany. He was condemned for supporting a terror organization and abetment to murder.
The Supreme Court canceled the conviction. The reason was that the judge did not try to hear witnesses that are currently arrested in the US and could disencumber him. So court procedure had to start again.
However US authorities did not allow to have interviews with the witnesses.They are arrested in the US, the location is unknown. Germans offered to do it on video without public but the US rejected that proposal. They just sent a general statement.
Now it looks like there will be an acquittal.
Do the US not want to sentence terrorists?

[Lazul]

hmm sounds weird I must say.

[Franconicus]

Does nobody else think that this is strange? Do the American authorities not want to cooperate with the Germans at all or are they too busy hiding their prisoners in strange places?

[Adrian II]

Does nobody else think that this is strange? Do the American authorities not want to cooperate with the Germans at all or are they too busy hiding their prisoners in strange places?

I really wouldn't know. I read about this in Der Spiegel all the time and scratch my head that nobody seems to know an answer.

[Kraxis]

This is indeed wierd...
Perhaps the man is an extremely small fish and the vitnesses have incriminating info on the US, that they do not like to get out. So the scales held for a silent stance. But that is just one possibility, and hopefully not it.

I really hope he is a small fish, or else this is very bad.

[Franconicus]

You maybe right. But the Germans proposed to do this without public!

[Fragony]

Well after you germans releasing other terrorists (like we dutchies LOVE to do) I am not at all surprised. Screw up a hundred times and people start to think you are silly, that is just the way it goes. And now you ask 'don't they want them??', why did you need them in the first place?

[Kraxis]

Well after you germans releasing other terrorists (like we dutchies LOVE to do) I am not at all surprised. Screw up a hundred times and people start to think you are silly, that is just the way it goes. And now you ask 'don't they want them??', why did you need them in the first place?

In that case the US is just acting like a child.

"Oh so you wouldn't play before, now we won't play with you."
It is counterproductive. Germany WANT to lock him away, perhasp even hand him over to the US. But refusal to help them will result in him going free.

[Franconicus]

Maybe I forgot to mention: Germany is a constitutional state. So everyone has certain rights.

Maybe this is what bothers the Americans?

No, that is not fair. I know that it is due to the Americans that we are a const. state. But that makes it not easier to understand

[Fragony]

In that case the US is just acting like a child.

"Oh so you wouldn't play before, now we won't play with you."
It is counterproductive. Germany WANT to lock him away, perhasp even hand him over to the US. But refusal to help them will result in him going free.

Well call it childish if you want, germany didn't want to coorporate with our good friends on the other side of the ocean and now complain about misthrust. If you want to play politics as least do it right.

[A.Saturnus]

Well call it childish if you want, germany didn't want to coorporate with our good friends on the other side of the ocean and now complain about misthrust. If you want to play politics as least do it right.

The question is, does the US governemnent want to have Motassadeq in jail or not? They can hardly complain that Germany releases terrorists when they hold back the necessary information to convict them.

[Kraxis]

Well call it childish if you want, germany didn't want to coorporate with our good friends on the other side of the ocean and now complain about misthrust. If you want to play politics as least do it right.

But in this case we are talking about a terrorist who wants to hit the US the most. Germany he doesn't care about (perhaps not now). This is like shooting yourself in the foot, just to get at a friendly state that didn't want to go to war alongside you (you not being you as a person but more abstract). Can you see my point?
And no, Germany is still a friendly state and a defensive ally, they are in fact proving it with this case. Are petty politics really more important than getting the terrorists?

[Fragony]

The question is, does the US governemnent want to have Motassadeq in jail or not? They can hardly complain that Germany releases terrorists when they hold back the necessary information to convict them.

Maybe they lost thrust and I don't blaim them, you have to put down your foot somewhere. What has gemany done? Why would the thrust be so low? It could have been related to the Khalif of Collogne where the german government showed it's complete incompetence in dealing with anything that the love and not war clan is against. First be a brat and then expect coorperation? Why? Take a stance or don't, but don't whine afterwards.

[A.Saturnus]

Maybe they lost thrust and I don't blaim them, you have to put down your foot somewhere. What has gemany done? Why would the thrust be so low? It could have been related to the Khalif of Collogne where the german government showed it's complete incompetence in dealing with anything that the love and not war clan is against. First be a brat and then expect coorperation? Why? Take a stance or don't, but don't whine afterwards.

Well, at least the Khalif of Collogne is in jail. Just good we didn't have to rely on American intelligence in that case.
It is irrelevant whether they trust Germany or not. They know that the only chance to see Motassadeq in jail is cooperation.

[Ser Clegane]

First be a brat and then expect coorperation? Why? Take a stance or don't, but don't whine afterwards.

I think that you misunderstand the point here. This is not about whining - it is just that we're quite puzzled.

If the US administration feels that Motassadeq should go free - fine with me.

[Tribesman]

Well after you germans releasing other terrorists (like we dutchies LOVE to do) I am not at all surprised.
Still feeling bitter about someone that was released because there was no evidence that he was guilty Frag ?
And what has that got to do with someone being released because a country won't release the evidence that will show a persons guilt or innocence .
If you want to play politics as least do it right.
If you want to convict a terrorist in a court of law then produce the evidence .

[Kraxis]

Maybe they lost thrust and I don't blaim them, you have to put down your foot somewhere. What has gemany done? Why would the thrust be so low? It could have been related to the Khalif of Collogne where the german government showed it's complete incompetence in dealing with anything that the love and not war clan is against. First be a brat and then expect coorperation? Why? Take a stance or don't, but don't whine afterwards.

Hmm... What about those loudmouths in London, they are not exactly playing it more friendly than this guy. But do we see problems here?
And as said he is in jail now.

The big question that comesfrom this would be: If Germany somehow captures Zawahiri or Bin Laden, would the US provide any evidence? If this case in anything to go by, they wouldn't.

Yes, I'm taking an extreme case here, but the basics are the same. That is the point, not whining.

[IrishMike]

It could be that 2 days after German releases him, he suddenly dissappears. Nobody saw him, talked to him, who knows were he is? Untill it turns up that he was mysteriously captured by the US.

Sure it sounds crazy, but it could happen.

[Kraxis]

It could be that 2 days after German releases him, he suddenly dissappears. Nobody saw him, talked to him, who knows were he is? Untill it turns up that he was mysteriously captured by the US.

Sure it sounds crazy, but it could happen.

Possible, but I doubt it. Should the Germans, and the world at large find out it would certainly ruin what was left of the American goodwill.

[Franconicus]

The big question that comesfrom this would be: If Germany somehow captures Zawahiri or Bin Laden, would the US provide any evidence? If this case in anything to go by, they wouldn't.

I think thinks get mixed. not only in this discussion but also in politics.

Germany is supporting the socalled war against terror. We have troops in Afghanistan and Eastern Africa as well as in the Indian Ocean. Since WW2 there was no German military force in abroad like this.

Of course Germany is trying to arrest all terrorist they can get. Unlike the US it works within a legal frame.

Germay does not support the invasion of Iraq. Miltary actiuons are very limited by German laws and public opinion - due to our history. We will fight only if we or our allies are attacked or if the UN orders an attack. None of these happened in Iraq war. Germany also sees no link between Iraq war and war against terror. However - things are changes. It is plain to see that the terrorist followed the US troops. So now the situation has changed.

I really cannot see why the US should not trust Germany concerning punishing terrorist. I can see that t hey should not trust on Germany's help if they want to invade another country!