Losing Stronach the best thing for Canadian Conservatives?

[Hurin_Rules]

Last week looked pretty bad for the Canadian Conservative party: they were trying to force an election but one of their superstars, a woman who ran for the leadership of the party at the last convention, defected to the liberals and the government survived by one vote. But consider this latest poll: perhaps avoiding an election was the best thing they could hope for:

Voters in Poll Fear Tory Agenda
By RHÉAL SÉGUIN

Thursday, May 26, 2005 Updated at 5:33 AM EDT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Quebec — The Conservative Party's inability to overtake the Liberals may have more to do with its agenda than with Stephen Harper, according to a new opinion poll.

A Leger Marketing poll, conducted last week, shows the Liberals have gained an 11-point lead over the Conservatives.

And when respondents were asked whether the Conservatives would fare better under deputy leader Peter MacKay or New Brunswick Premier Bernard Lord, two potential leadership contenders, the poll showed little change in the party's support.

"The problem isn't the leader, it is the party and its social policies," pollster Jean-Marc Léger said in an interview yesterday. "The Conservatives have not shown they can be a credible alternative to the Liberals. Despite a full year of minority [Liberal] government, despite the sponsorship scandal, despite the fiery debate over the budget, the Conservatives have not made any inroads across Canada. In fact, they have lost some ground. And the problem isn't Stephen Harper."

The survey showed 38 per cent of decided voters would opt for Mr. Martin's Liberals, 27 per cent for Mr. Harper's Conservatives and 17 per cent for the New Democrats under Jack Layton.

A change in leadership would do little to aid the Conservatives, the poll suggests. Asked whether they would vote for the Tories if Mr. MacKay were leader, 26 per cent of decided voters said yes. Exactly the same number said they would support the party if Mr. Lord were leader.

Regionally, the survey found the Liberals hold a strong lead in Ontario, with 46 per cent support, compared with 29 per cent for the Tories and 19 per cent for the NDP. The Liberals also registered a wide lead in British Columbia, attracting 47 per cent of decided voters to the Tories' 26 per cent and the New Democrats' 22 per cent.

The Bloc Québécois continue to dominate in Quebec, with the backing of 62 per cent of respondents, more than double the Liberals' 24 per cent; the Tories drew 10-per-cent support.

Part of the Conservatives' problem, the survey suggests, may have more to do with the number of Canadians, especially in Quebec and Ontario, who are mistrustful of Mr. Harper's stand on social issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage as well as his pro-U.S. positions.

Just as important, half of those surveyed said Prime Minister Paul Martin was better able to preserve national unity; only 26 per cent said Mr. Harper would do a better job.

When respondents were asked whether they were "afraid" of Mr. Harper's positions on "abortion, the death penalty and same-sex marriage," 39 per cent said yes and 43 per cent said no. The remaining 18 per cent said they did not know or declined to answer.

The response was almost evenly split when voters were asked whether they were "afraid" of Mr. Harper's "pro-American positions," with 41 per cent saying yes and 42 per cent saying no. The other 17 per cent were undecided or declined to answer.

However, Mr. Harper can take comfort in the fact that 36 per cent viewed him as "more honest" than the 26 per cent who had that opinion of Mr. Martin. Still, a majority, 46 per cent, said Mr. Martin is better able to manage the country, compared with 29 per cent for Mr. Harper.

The poll was conducted between May 19 and May 22 among 1,509 respondents across Canada. The error for a polling sample of this size is 2.6 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

[Goofball]

Last week looked pretty bad for the Canadian Conservative party: they were trying to force an election but one of their superstars, a woman who ran for the leadership of the party at the last convention, defected to the liberals and the government survived by one vote. But consider this latest poll: perhaps avoiding an election was the best thing they could hope for:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

Man, but I do love vindication. I said the following a week ago in this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...3&page=2&pp=30

It's the best thing that could have happened to the Conservatives. They would have lost seats in an election right now. The Liberals, on the other hand, have nowhere to go but down as more and more Gomery crap comes down the pipe.

and had smart-arse remarks made at me for my opinion. I love it when a plan comes together...

[UglyandHasty]

Plus, Martin the little fish will have a big surprise when Stronach the Shark will turn on him. He will find that he swim in a really small aquarium....

[Beirut]

I'm surprised anyone would want to hand the country over to Harper when Harper was ready and willing to force an election that would have seen the separatists claim even more power in Quebec. Harper was willing to risk the nation in order to be King for a day. Had the conservatives won, they likely would have won a minority government and had to make unholy allegiance with the separatists time and again to move bills through Parliament. The separatists would have held a knife to the throat of the federal government and won more and more of the powers they seek and Harper would have given it to them on a silver plate.

It was that idiot Mulroney who shmoozed the separatists last time and his idiocy directly led to the creation of the Bloc Quebecois. And now Harper, who has publicly stated several times that he confers with Mulroney on matters of policy, was ready to help the Bloc Quebecois rise in scope and power all over again.

The Liberals may be lying, thieving scumbags, but at least they don't sleep with the separatists.

[UglyandHasty]

You got it all wrong Beirut. If the Separatist are growing in popularity right now, PQ membership and vote intention raising, BlocQuebecois cruising toward another Quebec sweep, its because of the Liberal Mafia. Without the Red institutionalize bandits, separatism would be dying. Without those Liberals clown, the Bloc would be crumbling right now. Who do you think is fuelling their campaign ? They dont even have to work, the Liberals are doing the job for them ! That and the fact that there's no Party strong enough in the english Canada to overthrow the Liberals.

Again blasting Mulroney. Ironic that the last attempt to bring back Quebec into the constitution was made by him, and destroy by Chretien himself. Since then, what good have the Liberals have done to bring Quebec into Canada bed ? They 're just Quebec basher !

Talking of sleeping with separatist, i knew a separatist girl once who ...

[sharrukin]

Talking of sleeping with separatist, i knew a separatist girl once who ...

I was wondering UglyandHasty how did you get your forum name?

[UglyandHasty]

hahahah

I get it on the battlefield by rushing too early and out of sync most of the times


no further comment

[PanzerJaeger]

Plenty of polls had Kerry winning the election down here.. they arent as telling as they act like.

[sharrukin]

Plenty of polls had Kerry winning the election down here.. they arent as telling as they act like.

Well in Canada the NDP (socialists) always show higher in polls than ever garner in votes. Most of thoses votes go Liberal and maybe a third go to what used to be Reform. Not sure they would go Conservative though.

And Losing Stronach was a good thing even if it means losing the elections because she would have gone Liberal at some point and better now than later.

[Beirut]

You got it all wrong Beirut. If the Separatist are growing in popularity right now, PQ membership and vote intention raising, BlocQuebecois cruising toward another Quebec sweep, its because of the Liberal Mafia. Without the Red institutionalize bandits, separatism would be dying. Without those Liberals clown, the Bloc would be crumbling right now. Who do you think is fuelling their campaign ? They dont even have to work, the Liberals are doing the job for them ! That and the fact that there's no Party strong enough in the english Canada to overthrow the Liberals.

I do see your point and there is merit to what you're saying, but the truth is that the Bloc Quebecois are separatist traitors and will try to destroy the country regardless of who is in power. There is no doubt that the sleezy Liberals are helping them with all the neagtive press about Canada, but that doens't mean the Bloc would stop if the Liberals were gone.

Again blasting Mulroney. Ironic that the last attempt to bring back Quebec into the constitution was made by him, and destroy by Chretien himself. Since then, what good have the Liberals have done to bring Quebec into Canada bed ? They 're just Quebec basher !

I will always blast Mulroney. He is the ultimate evil in the Canadian universe. The Satan to be detested and hated. It was Mulroney caving into Quebec's snivelling demands that led to the downfall of Meech Lake, not the Liberals. As for this Quebec bashing business, that's just a tired cry from the weasels in Quebec who complain and cry and whine like little girls when they don't get everything they want. It's utterly embarrassing.

Talking of sleeping with separatist, i knew a separatist girl once who ...

Me too. About five girlfriends ago. She was a grade school teacher who danced ballet. Oh Sweet Lord... (Thanks!)

[Adrian II]

Me too. About five girlfriends ago. She was a grade school teacher who danced ballet. Oh Sweet Lord... (Thanks!)

Ahhh. Many Christmases ago... I dated a French-speaking Belgian ballerina...


*walks off with spark in eye*

[Krypta]

I will always blast Mulroney. He is the ultimate evil in the Canadian universe. The Satan to be detested and hated. It was Mulroney caving into Quebec's snivelling demands that led to the downfall of Meech Lake, not the Liberals. As for this Quebec bashing business, that's just a tired cry from the weasels in Quebec who complain and cry and whine like little girls when they don't get everything they want. It's utterly embarrassing.

Spot on man. I think most Canadians are tired of Quebec using Separatism to "strong arm" the rest of the country, I know I am. Quebec has this mentality that Canada should revolve around them, the last time I checked, there are 12 other provinces. I would be totally in favour of giving the Western Provinces more clout in the Commons, equal to that of Quebec and Ontario. As far as Harper, the guy is nothing more then a Alliance party hack, Mulroney may have his ear, but so does Stockwell Day and that other little Alliance rat. Stronach's defection to Liberals is very telling as it speaks volumes about the type of party and direction that the "New" Conservatives are taking. The "New" Conservatives are the Alliance party, period. They just like trying to dress themselves up as "moderates", but nobody really buys it. I hope the "New" Conservatives get mopped during the next election for aligning themselves with the Bloc and the Quebec first agenda.

[UglyandHasty]

I do see your point and there is merit to what you're saying, but the truth is that the Bloc Quebecois are separatist traitors and will try to destroy the country regardless of who is in power. There is no doubt that the sleezy Liberals are helping them with all the neagtive press about Canada, but that doens't mean the Bloc would stop if the Liberals were gone.

That's where we disagree. I think that after the last referendum, if the Liberal had played the conciliation card with the Quebecois instead of keeping the hard line, and frauding with the sponsorship program, the Bloc would have crumble and die of slow death. It was loosing speed until the Sponsorship came public. Since then they just cruise toward more seat in Parlement. That's just show how the Quebecois are fed up with the Liberals, since there's no alternative, it's not "real" support for independance. But the Bloc and PQ are not stupid, they will try to use that momentum in the next 2 years.

As for your comment on whinning and complaining like little girl, i think that's just rude.

[Beirut]

That's where we disagree. I think that after the last referendum, if the Liberal had played the conciliation card with the Quebecois instead of keeping the hard line, and frauding with the sponsorship program, the Bloc would have crumble and die of slow death. It was loosing speed until the Sponsorship came public. Since then they just cruise toward more seat in Parlement. That's just show how the Quebecois are fed up with the Liberals, since there's no alternative, it's not "real" support for independance. But the Bloc and PQ are not stupid, they will try to use that momentum in the next 2 years.

As for your comment on whinning and complaining like little girl, i think that's just rude.

Parizeau and his hard liners in the PQ are never content and are always fostering treason. For the past thirty years that they have not, for one moment, called for anything but outright treason and the separation of Quebec from Canada. The polls go up and down depending on the politcal climate, but the stance remains the same. There are always 35% + who want to separate. Personally, I would cut off a pice of the Gaspe and toss them all over there and never let them back in. if they think they're going to get the whole territory of Quebec, they must be high on crack.

The whinning and complaining is real and my comment was justified. I live right smack dab in the middle of these boneheads and I see it and hear it every day. Hell, the guy I work with every single day, my tree killing partner, is a separatist and my area is under the control of a separatist member of Parliament. How disgusting is that!